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CONSPIRACY: The Okla. City-Sept. 11 Connection
Philadelphia News ^ | Oct. 03, 2002 | Michael Smerconish

Posted on 10/03/2002 8:14:28 AM PDT by aculeus

I'M NOT A conspiracy guy. I think Oswald killed Kennedy, and that he acted alone. And, like all Americans, I figured that the tragic bombing of the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City was the work of two sick ex-Army guys, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

Now I'm not so sure.

Last night, my radio station, the Big Talker 1210, brought three speakers to town for a remarkable presentation: Jayna Davis, a reporter from Oklahoma City; Larry Johnson, ex-deputy director of the State Department's office of counterterrorism, and Patrick Lang, Mideast expert formerly of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

In a spellbinding presentation, they made the case for a connection between Mideast terrorism, the Murrah bombing - and the attacks on the Twin Towers.

Now I know why former CIA Director James Woolsey has been quoted as saying that when the full truth is known about these acts of terrorism, the nation will owe Davis "a debt of gratitude."

Why her name is not already a household word is the greatest mystery of all. Just this week, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said that U.S. intelligence has "bulletproof" evidence of links between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. Rumsfeld didn't offer specifics. But here is what we know from the work of Davis.

When the Murrah bombing occurred at 9:02 a.m. on April 19, 1995, Davis was a reporter for the NBC affiliate in Oklahoma City. She was among the first journalists to broadcast that an enormous truck bomb had rocked the heartland, killing 168 and injuring hundreds.

In the immediate aftermath of the explosion, the FBI launched an international pursuit of several Middle Eastern-looking men seen fleeing the Murrah Building in a brown Chevy pickup right before the blast. Without explanation, that all-points bulletin was later canceled. Two days later, Timothy McVeigh was a household name. So was Terry Nichols.

And that's where most of us left the tale. Stunned, but convinced that two Army buddies, homegrown terrorists, acted alone.

Thankfully, Davis didn't close this book as quickly as most of us did. She pursued the APB and set off to track reports of multiple sightings of McVeigh with an elusive dark-haired accomplice. The infamous sketch of John Doe No. 2 was always tucked firmly in her grip.

Davis soon uncovered that several employees at an Oklahoma City property- management company said they had seen a brown Chevy truck like the getaway vehicle aggressively pursued by law enforcement parked outside their office in the days before the bombing. The company's owner was a Palestinian with a rap sheet and suspected ties to the PLO.

Davis learned that, six months before the bombing, the Palestinian hired a handful of ex-Iraqi soldiers to do maintenance at his rental houses. Eyewitnesses told Davis that they celebrated the bombing.

She was also made aware that these same men were absent from work on April 17, 1995, the day McVeigh rented the Ryder truck that carried the bomb.

While pursuing the story of these Middle Eastern men, Davis also became aware of another ex-Iraqi soldier in Oklahoma City named Hussain Hashem Al-Hussaini. She was taken aback to see that Al-Hussaini's picture, when overlaid with the government sketch of John Doe No. 2, was arguably a perfect match. He even sported a tattoo on his upper left arm indicating that he likely had served in Saddam Hussein's Republican Guard.

Davis then set about looking for a connection to McVeigh, Nichols, Al-Hussaini and other Iraqis. It came when a colleague located two eyewitnesses who claimed to have independently seen Al-Hussaini drinking beer with McVeigh in an Oklahoma City nightclub just four days before the bombing.

This convinced her station to run with the Iraqi-connection story. It was met with some controversy.

The Justice Department responded that the identification of John Doe No. 2 was merely a case of mistaken identity. Al-Hussaini contacted local reporters, claiming to be falsely accused. Davis did not back off because she believed she could repudiate Al-Hussaini's alibi.

AND SHE LOCATED two dozen witnesses who identified eight specific Middle Eastern men, the majority of whom were ex-Iraqi soldiers, who were seen with McVeigh and Nichols. Two witnesses named Al-Hussaini as the dark-haired, olive-skinned man they observed one block from the Murrah Building just before daybreak on the day of the blast.

She also uncovered evidence that implicated several of Al-Hussaini's co-workers. One of these men was identified as sitting in the driver's seat of a Chevy pickup at an Oklahoma City apartment complex hours before the truck was abandoned on the lot and towed to the FBI command post. According to police records, the truck had been stripped of its vehicle identification numbers and identifying body molding.

The story gathered steam. Here, it would appear, was the deserted pickup that was the same vehicle that was seen speeding away from the vicinity of the Murrah building with two Arab-looking occupants.

And there was more. Five witnesses independently fingered several of Al-Hussaini's associates as frequent visitors to an Oklahoma City motel in the months, days, and hours leading up to 9:02 a.m. on April 19. On numerous occasions, the subjects were seen in the company of McVeigh, and during a few instances, associating with Nichols - at the same motel!

Davis spoke to the motel owner and a maintenance worker who said the men came within feet of a large Ryder truck parked on the west side of the parking lot at 7:40 a.m. on April 19. An unexplained odor of diesel fuel emanated from the rear carriage. Minutes later, McVeigh entered the motel office and returned the room key. The motel owner then saw McVeigh drive off the lot with a man identified as Al-Hussaini.

To this day, the Justice Department has refused to return the original registration logs for the motel.

Davis has 80 pages of affidavits and 2,000 supporting documents, and they suggest not only an Iraqi connection to the Murrah bombing, but also to the attacks against the Twin Towers.

For example, Nichols was a man of modest means. Yet he traveled frequently to the Philippines. Davis discovered that Nichols was there, in Cebu City in December 1994, at the same time as the convicted mastermind of the first World Trade Center attack, Ramzi Yousef.

She has also found evidence that Islamic terrorists boasted of having recruited two "lily whites" for terrorism.

Al-Hussaini had a very American response to Davis' investigation. He sued for defamation. In a ruling on Nov. 17, 1999, federal Judge Timothy Leonard dismissed the case.

In 1995, the federal grand jury proclaimed in the official indictment that McVeigh and Nichols acted with "others unknown." And several members of the Denver juries who convicted the two said publicly that they thought they had help.

Since 1997, Davis has repeatedly tried to interest the FBI in her investigation. She has been rebuffed.

As for Al-Hussaini, after leaving Oklahoma City, he went on to work at Boston's Logan International Airport, the point of origin for several for the 9/11 hijackers, including Mohammad Atta.

One more thing. That motel where McVeigh, Nichols and Al-Hussaini were seen together was later visited (pre-9/11) by Atta, Zacharias Moussaouy and Marwan Al-Shehi.

Michael Smerconish's column appears Thursdays. E-mail mas@mastalk.com.

© 2001 philly and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: fredthompson; okcbombing
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 10/03/2002 8:14:29 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: thinden
It's just you and me thinden. This thread won't go very far, unfortunately.
2 posted on 10/03/2002 8:25:25 AM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: aculeus
At one time, there were links posted here to very early radio reports made immediately after the bombing. The links seem to have dried up. They provided some very different, CONFLICTING, eyewitness testimony as to what was actually being seen and heard at the time of the bombing. And it was VERY COMPELLING information.

Anyone have any clue as to the where-abouts of those old audio links????????? I believe one of them was Jayna Davis' report!
3 posted on 10/03/2002 8:29:31 AM PDT by soozla
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Fred Mertz
With the way the Klintoon FIBi's worked I would expect nothing less.

Not saying I agree or diasgree, but the FIBI's have left something to be desired as an investigative unit in the past twenty thiryt years.

5 posted on 10/03/2002 8:34:28 AM PDT by dts32041
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To: aculeus
It happened on Klinton's watch - it makes perfect sense that he would try to blame home-grown terrorists and try to imply a right-wing connection while burying the truth. If the truth were known, he might have had to actually do something about the Iraquis.
6 posted on 10/03/2002 8:35:14 AM PDT by austingirl
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To: soozla
P.S. NEVER FORGET.......use it when referring to 9/11................AND use it when referring to.......WHO WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AT THE TIME OF THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING???????????????.......therefore ANYTHING resembling a cover-up/distortion of information which points to the highest levels of the Administration...is DEFINITELY possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7 posted on 10/03/2002 8:35:33 AM PDT by soozla
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To: aculeus
BUMP
8 posted on 10/03/2002 8:35:48 AM PDT by RippleFire
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: aculeus
Here's more, from from an interview with Jayna Davis's lawyer, David Shippers. I'm not a conspiracy guy either, and to tell the truth, I don't yet know what to think, although David Schippers has always received respect on FR. (source: http://www.ileagles.net/schippers.htm.)
------
On September 29, 2001, Chicago attorney David Schippers confirmed the following article’s information to Eagle Forum of Illinois’ State President, Fran Eaton. David Schippers is most well-known as the Chief Counsel for the House Judiciary Committee on Impeachment. He authored the important book on the Clinton impeachment, "Sell Out."

The conversation went as follows:

Eaton: Mr. Schippers, I have a few questions for you about the recent events in our nation. I want to dispel urban legends, and would like to confirm fact as you know it on this matter.

Schippers: I’ll be happy to help you in any way I can.

Eaton: Mr. Schippers, is it true that you are now representing the former television reporter Jayna Davis from Oklahoma City as one of your clients?

Schippers: That is true.

Eaton: Is it true that Jayna Davis knows of an accomplice in the Oklahoma City bombing that had Mid-East connections, but who was covered up during the McVeigh trial?

Schippers: Mrs. Davis not only knows of the accomplice, she has a sketch of him, knows his name, and has interviewed numerous people who shared eye witness accounts of "John Doe 2" either with Tim McVeigh or leaving the Murrah Building area on the day of the bombing.

Eaton: Is it your suspicion that Bin Laden was involved in the Oklahoma City bombing by financing or some other way?

Schippers: There is strong evidence that makes me believe that is so.

Eaton: Is it also your suspicion that Bin Laden was involved in the downing of Flight 800 in New York?

Schippers: There is strong evidence that makes me believe that is true as well.As a matter of fact, high levels of intelligence have leaked that Flight 800 exploded because of a letter bomb that was on board the plane that day.

Eaton: It is my understanding that after reading Jayna Davis evidence that you were so convinced of looming danger on our nation’s security that you attempted to notify the Department of Justice about another attack, this time on the financial district in south Manhattan?

Schippers: Five weeks before the September 11 tragedy, I did my best to get a hold of Attorney General John Ashcroft with my concerns. The best that I could do was get in touch with an underling in that office who told me that all investigations start out at lower levels such as his. Fifteen minutes before the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, Jayna Davis got a phone call. On the other end of the line, a voice with a Mid-Eastern accent told her, ‘Turn on your TV.’ She turned it on, and witnessed what the world saw - the World Trade Center burning and shortly thereafter, a second plane flying directly into the second tower.

Eaton: Why is this all being kept quiet?

Schippers: Believe me, I’m just about ready to let the lid off of this . . .
10 posted on 10/03/2002 8:47:31 AM PDT by cloud8
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To: rosebud
The name Andre' Strausmeyer pops to mind. He's Austrian, I think. Do a web search, I'm not sure of the spelling of the last name. Seems he had a connection to a white seperatist group and his main squeeze was an FBI imformant with quite a bit of knowledge about the bombing.....before it happened.
11 posted on 10/03/2002 8:48:15 AM PDT by taxed2death
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To: Fred Mertz
I'm here. This story is fascinating.
12 posted on 10/03/2002 9:01:11 AM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost
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To: taxed2death
Andras Strasmeir is a German national. His father is in German politics/government. The best account I've seen so far is in Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's book "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton".

This book is a must read, IMHO.

13 posted on 10/03/2002 9:06:35 AM PDT by Victor
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To: hoi-polloi
I have pondered that as well. My best and most optimistic guess is that Bush is waiting for the naysayers to drag it out of him, rather than just come out and say,
"Saddam blew up the Murrah Building so we better get him!"

Rather, I'm hoping he'll finally come out with, "OK, OK,
I didn't want to have to say this about a former president, but here's what Klinton did." Then he drops the much demanded and heavily damning evidence on everybody. Especially if there is another attack before we nail Saddam.

I know, I'm kidding myself. He will continue the coverup.
14 posted on 10/03/2002 9:07:40 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: aculeus
One more thing. That motel where McVeigh, Nichols and Al-Hussaini were seen together was later visited (pre-9/11) by Atta, Zacharias Moussaouy and Marwan Al-Shehi.

This is enough to start a full fledged investigation IMHO.

15 posted on 10/03/2002 9:08:51 AM PDT by VRW Conspirator
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To: aculeus
Thanks for posting this.I watched TV the day of the OK bombing all day long.I was in Chicago at the time. Several times they said that federal agents were watching the Chicago airports for a German National suspected of being involved with the bombings.

I also heard broadcasts from Oklahoma City news and mention was made of mid-eastern involvement and connections.That first day was probably the last day we heard pretty honest accounts of what was happening in the mainstream media.

Given that I had always believed that Clinton and Gore were commie,pinko,knee-jerk liberal,deceitful,duplicitous,lying,diabolical jack-a--es,I was not surprised at the subsequent cover-up and disinformation campaign.However,I was surprised and disappointed when Bush and Ashcroft with the opportunity afforded by the pending execution of Tim McVeigh seemed to also fail in the pursuit of truth.

16 posted on 10/03/2002 9:11:14 AM PDT by saradippity
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To: aculeus
Gee... do ya think the mainstream press is finally going to do something with this??? Nah.

None of this is new. We here at FR have known this stuff for years... we followed many of the leads and posted them here as they came up.

What did we get for our trouble? We got called "Tin Foil Hat", "Missile Hugger" and many other epithets far worse... all instigated and orchestrated by a few dis-information artists.
17 posted on 10/03/2002 9:12:36 AM PDT by Swordmaker
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To: saradippity
...However,I was surprised and disappointed when Bush and Ashcroft with the opportunity afforded by the pending execution of Tim McVeigh seemed to also fail in the pursuit of truth.

Remember the 1100+ FBI files the Clinton's purloined, transcribing copies in to the WHODB and sending them to the DNC headquarters computer? Bush, Ashcroft, et al, are beholden to a host of current and former (Dang, it hurts to say this) governmental officials of Bush 1's and now Bush 2's administrations that may (probably) did things they DO NOT WANT REVEALED! We now have the case where major treasonous activities are being covered up because of petty crimes done in the past and now recorded in the DNC basement.

18 posted on 10/03/2002 9:19:54 AM PDT by Swordmaker
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To: soozla
I was there....

I lived on 144th and Pennsylvania Ave on that fateful day. The blast was large enough to cause pictures to fall off of my wall.

After the blast (within about 30 seconds) I turned on my scanner. One of the forst APB's I heard was for the Middle Eastern man in a brown pickup.

To this day I believe there is a ME connection. Oklahoma City is crawling with Iraq and HAMAS sympathizers.

19 posted on 10/03/2002 9:23:53 AM PDT by jbstrick
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To: Swordmaker
Let's not forgot how swiftly McVeigh's execution was carried out.
20 posted on 10/03/2002 9:31:31 AM PDT by GSWarrior
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To: glorygirl; madfly
PING!
21 posted on 10/03/2002 9:33:23 AM PDT by TigersEye
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To: backhoe
PING!
22 posted on 10/03/2002 9:34:29 AM PDT by TigersEye
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To: cloud8
Five weeks before the September 11 tragedy, I did my best to get a hold of Attorney General John Ashcroft with my concerns. The best that I could do was get in touch with an underling in that office who told me that all investigations start out at lower levels such as his. Fifteen minutes before the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, Jayna Davis got a phone call. On the other end of the line, a voice with a Mid-Eastern accent told her, ‘Turn on your TV.’ She turned it on, and witnessed what the world saw - the World Trade Center burning and shortly thereafter, a second plane flying directly into the second tower.

Absolutely chilling......
23 posted on 10/03/2002 9:42:21 AM PDT by oline
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To: soozla
WHO WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AT THE TIME OF THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING????

Do we all remember the big controversy at the time? Donna Shalala had recently stated that we didn't send our best and brightest to Viet Nam and OKC blew it right off the radar screen, never to be mentioned again.

OKC was the turning point that saved the Klintoon presidency. We had him on the ropes up to that point. Then suddenly, the right wingers and the militias were portrayed as satan himself. Joe and Mary average bought it hook, line, and sinker.

24 posted on 10/03/2002 9:46:19 AM PDT by bankwalker
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To: TigersEye; *OKCbombing
I'm surprised nobody indexed this... all you have to do is click the keyword "OKC Bombing" near the end of the article, or hit the link below, to call up our database of innumerable articles, links, and opinions:

OKCBOMBING

Click here for OKC BOMBING BUMP LIST 

Other Bump Lists at: Free Republic Bump List Register



25 posted on 10/03/2002 9:47:29 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: GSWarrior
As opposed to that murderer, Mumia Babboon Yommama.
26 posted on 10/03/2002 10:26:57 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: Victor
Thanks for clearing that up. I listened to an excellent radio program about him a few months back and was not entirely sure of his name or nationality.

Ciao
27 posted on 10/03/2002 11:04:15 AM PDT by taxed2death
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To: saradippity
I don't know which branch of Feds that might have been, 'cause from what I understand....other Feds gave him a free pass out of the country. That's pretty typical though, the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.
28 posted on 10/03/2002 11:07:11 AM PDT by taxed2death
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To: saradippity
I don't know which branch of Feds that might have been, 'cause from what I understand....other Feds gave him a free pass out of the country. That's pretty typical though, the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.
29 posted on 10/03/2002 11:08:13 AM PDT by taxed2death
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30 posted on 10/03/2002 11:08:48 AM PDT by Mo1
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To: aculeus

An Essay on Hypocrisy
By Timothy McVeigh
Reprinted with permission from Media Bypass.

Parthenocarpy is interested in any existing or future rebuttals of this essay.
Please contact us here to contribute.


Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc. Editor's note: Timothy McVeigh, sentenced to death for his role in the April 19, 1995 bombing in Oklahoma City, penned the following essay, dated "March 1998," from his cell in the administrative maximum section of the federal prison in Florence, Colo. In a preface, McVeigh wrote "I have chosen Media Bypass as a possible forum for this piece because, frankly, I realize that it is quite provocative -- and I rather doubt that any mainstream media would touch it. [Note that although the enclosed is very provocative, it was written to provoke thought -- and was not written with malevolent intent.]"

McVeigh appologized for the essay being handwritten, but noted his "current (unique) environment does not provide access to a typewriter, a word processor or a copier. (hell, I'm lucky they let me have a pen!), so I hope you understand why this is being submitted handwritten -- and I hope you can overcome this shortcoming."

McVeigh, whose interview with Media Bypass [February 1996] was picked up and dissected by the New York Times and major media outlets across the nation, also expressed concerns that reporting subsequent to this essay might be "printed out of context... but at least the original can be accurate."

A decorated U.S. Army veteran of the Persian Gulf War, McVeigh hereby offers his contribution to the debate over U.S. policy toward Iraq, a policy that McVeigh says is marked by a "deep hypocrisy."


The administration has said that Iraq has no right to stockpile chemical or biological weapons ("weapons of mass destruction") -- mainly because they have used them in the past.

Well, if that's the standard by which these matters are decided, then the U.Sl is the nation that set the precedent. The U.S. has stockpiled these same weapons (and more) for over 40 years. The U.S. claims that this was done for deterent purposes during the "Cold War" with the Soviet Union. Why, then is it invalid for Iraq to claim the same reason (deterence) -- with respect to Iraq's (real) war with, and the continued threat of, its neighbor Iran?

The administration claims that Iraq has used these weapons in the past. We've all seen the pictures that show a Kurdish woman and child frozen in death from the use of chemical weapons. But, have you ever seen these pictures juxtaposed next to pictures from Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

I suggest that one study the histories of World War I, World War II and other "regional conflicts" that the U.S. has been involved in to familiarize themselves with the use of "weapons of mass destruction."

Remember Dresden? How about Hanoi? Tripoli? Baghdad? What about the big ones-- Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (At these two locations, the U.S. killed at least 150,000 non-combatants -- mostly women and children -- in the blink of an eye. Thousands more took hours, days, weeks, or months to die.)

If Saddam is such a demon, and people are calling for war crimes charges and trials against him and his nation, why do we not hear the same cry for blood directed at those responsible for even greater amounts of "mass destruction" -- like those responsible and involved in dropping bombs on the cities mentioned above?

The truth is, the U.S. has set the standard when it comes to the stockpiling and use of weapons of mass destruction.

Hypocrisy when it comes to death of children? In Oklahoma City, it was family convenience that explained the presence of a day-care center placed between street level and the law enforcement agencies which occupied the upper floors of the building. Yet when discussion shifts to Iraq, any day-care center in a government building instantly becomes "a shield." Think about that.

(Actually, there is a difference here. The administration has admitted to knowledge of the presence of children in or near Iraqi government buildings, yet they still proceed with their plans to bomb -- saying that they cannot be held responsible if children die. There is no such proof, however, that knowledge of the presence of children existed in relation to the Oklahoma City bombing.)

When considering morality and mens rea [criminal intent] in light of these facts, I ask: Who are the true barbarians?

Yet another example of this nation's blatant hypocrisy is revealed by the polls which suggest that this nation is greatly in favor of bombing Iraq.

In this instance, the people of the nation approve of bombing government employees because they are "guilty by association" -- they are Iraqi government employees. In regard to the bombing in Oklahoma City, however, such logic is condemned.

What motivates these seemingly contradictory positions? Do people think that government workers in Iraq are any less human than those in Oklahoma City? Do they think that Iraqis don't have families who will grieve and mourn the loss of their loved ones? In this context, do people come to believe that the killing of foreigners is somehow different than the killing of Americans?

I recently read of an arrest in New York City where possession of a mere pipe bomb was charged as possession of a "weapon of mass destruction." If a two pound pipe bomb is a "weapon of mass destruction," then what do people think that a 2,000-pound steel-encased bomb is?

I find it ironic, to say the least, that one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq is dubbed "The Spirit of Oklahoma."

When a U.S. plane or cruise missile is used to bring destruction to a foreign people, this nation rewards the bombers with applause and praise. What a convenient way to absolve these killers of any responsibility for the destruction they leave in their wake.

Unfortunately, the morality of killing is not so superficial. The truth is, the use of a truck, a plane, or a missile for the delivery of a weapon of mass destruction does not alter the nature of the act itself.

These are weapons of mass destruction -- and the method of delivery matters little to those on the receiving end of such weapons.

Whether you wish to admit it or not, when you approve, morally, of the bombing of foreign tartgets by the U.S. military, you are approving of acts morally equivilent to the bombing in Oklahoma City. The only difference is that this nation is not going to see any foreign casualties appear on the cover of Newsweek magazine.

It seems ironic and hypocritical that an act viciously condemned in Oklahoma City is now a "justified" response to a problem in a foreign land. Then again, the history of United States policy over the last century, when examined fully, tends to exemplify hypocrisy.

When considering the use of weapons of mass destruction against Iraq as a means to an end, it would be wise to reflect on the words of the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. His words are as true in the context of Olmstead as they are when they stand alone:
"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example."

Sincerely


Timothy J. McVeigh

Copyright (c) 1998, Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc


31 posted on 10/03/2002 11:11:29 AM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: aculeus
KEEP THE TRUTH ALIVE!
32 posted on 10/03/2002 11:12:15 AM PDT by BossyRoofer
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To: honway
ping
33 posted on 10/03/2002 11:13:35 AM PDT by flamefront
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To: jbstrick
Didn't that A$$hole Clinton let 30,000 or so Iraq soldiers and families settle into our country shortly after we kicked the living $hit out of them.
Do you think a few of the new immigrants might have had some hard feelings, being we liquified tens of thousands of their buddies? I know it's a stretch, waddya think?

Pretzel logic.
34 posted on 10/03/2002 11:14:15 AM PDT by taxed2death
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To: taxed2death
sorry for the dumb-ass double post....my pooter is a mere shadow of what it used to be.
35 posted on 10/03/2002 11:16:29 AM PDT by taxed2death
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To: Fred Mertz
The last chance for vindication came and went with the resolution for the United States to fight another UN war rather than a war of self-defense in retaliation for WTC '93 and the OKC bombing.


36 posted on 10/03/2002 11:17:17 AM PDT by JohnGalt
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To: taxed2death
Iraqi Intelligence- Dennis Mahon - Andres Strassmeir - Kirk Lyons - Tim McVeigh - Michael Brescia - Terry Nichols - Philippines - Yousef
37 posted on 10/03/2002 11:19:46 AM PDT by JohnGalt
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To: Fred Mertz
lucianne.com has this story at the top of its page today. Maybe that fact will convince the powers that be here not to delete the thread. If Lucianne features it, doesn't that mean it can't be tinfoil stuff?
38 posted on 10/03/2002 11:22:44 AM PDT by aristeides
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To: aculeus
UH oh....another OKC thread. Any bets on how long it takes to get the "tinfoil" boot by the board gods?? I just wonder why this is such a sticky subject? Hmmmm.....
39 posted on 10/03/2002 11:23:09 AM PDT by hove
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To: The Great Satan
Interesting that Media Bypass/The Spotlight (of the anti-Semetic Liberty Lobby) printed his letter. The Spotlight was dragged into the McVeigh Trial because Tim, using an assumed name, he used a Spotlight calling card for some long distance calls.
40 posted on 10/03/2002 11:23:30 AM PDT by JohnGalt
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To: okie01; All
I recently read of an arrest in New York City where possession of a mere pipe bomb was charged as possession of a "weapon of mass destruction." If a two pound pipe bomb is a "weapon of mass destruction," then what do people think that a 2,000-pound steel-encased bomb is?

I find it ironic, to say the least, that one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq is dubbed "The Spirit of Oklahoma."

During the Gulf War, an F-117A (not "Spirit of Oklahoma," which is a B-2, I believe) dropped such a 2,000 lb bomb on the Al Firdos bunker, incinerating over two hundred men, women and children. Iraq scored a huge propaganda victory, putting the charred corpses on display for a photo-op press conference. It lead to Powell introducing restrictions on the bombing campaign to minimize civilian casualties. However, after the war, I remember reading a report that the Pentagon knew that the bunker held women and children, but that it also knew they were the families of the Iraqi high command. Supposedly, this bombing was considered quite effective in weakening the resolve of the Iraqi regime. I suspect it also provided motivation for a lot of the revenge attacks we have seen since, such as the attempted assassination of Bush 41, the OKC bombing, and the destruction of the WTC. Saddam was still going on about the bunker bombing in his last "commentary" on the September 11 situation. It seems to be a very sore point with the Iraqi leadership.

41 posted on 10/03/2002 11:32:32 AM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan
Interesting hypothesis about the Al-Firdos bunker.

And, yes, it would've been an F-117A. The B-2 Spirits, with their "Spirit of _____" names, weren't in service at that time.

Note, FWIW, that McVeigh isn't claiming the "Spirit of Oklahoma" dropped any bombs on Iraq. Only that it is "one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq..."

42 posted on 10/03/2002 11:56:41 AM PDT by okie01
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To: aristeides
No, this thread won't get yanked because it comes from a legitimate news source. I was intimating that I didn't think this thread would get many hits because many of the OKC bombing crowd are banned or walked away from FR.

I'm happy to see there is still interest in this today.
43 posted on 10/03/2002 12:02:13 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: cloud8
I heard the second half of the Smerconish broadcast yesterday. Davis was extremely credible. I had not really believed there was any connection until I heard her. Several things struck me: 1) the man she identified as John Doe 2 has sued her and it was thrown out of court. He had no defense at all; 2) she worked at a local NBC affiliate when OKC building was bombed and had the full cooperation of the station behind her, as well as feedback from the FBI (at first); 3) the station would not let her go on the air with her story unless she did her homework; station attorneys and editors worked with her every step of the way--she was no loner out there running this stuff down; 4) she found these people from a tip that was called into the station by someone who worked with the Iraqis that she later identified; 5) these men were absent from work the day McVeigh & co. rented the truck (April 17) and when they heard the radio broadcast that the bldg had blown up on the 19th, they celebrated.

If you ever have a chance to hear this woman speak, do so. Absolutely amazing.

44 posted on 10/03/2002 12:08:31 PM PDT by twigs
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To: taxed2death
Didn't that A$$hole Clinton let 30,000 or so Iraq soldiers and families settle into our country shortly after we kicked the living $hit out of them.

Do you think a few of the new immigrants might have had some hard feelings, being we liquified tens of thousands of their buddies? I know it's a stretch, waddya think?

Whether or no former Iraqi soldiers were in some way involved with McVeigh and Nichols, there's this little question of loyalty.

Supposedly (if you can believe our State Department) the Iraqi people are fed up with Saddam Hussein's tyranny and would overthrow him if only we started the ball rolling, which may happen any time.

So given the choice, would an Iraqi who barely escaped death as cannon fodder during the Gulf War be more likely to work for some clandestine intelligence group of the Iraqi government, or . . something more aligned with eventual overthrow of Hussein, such as Hamas or Al Qaeda?

It's too simplistic to paint all Iraqis with that broad brush that makes them appear as loyal leutenants to Saddam Hussein. The fact that they were admitted to this country more or less negates that premise, unless one were to wear tin foil all around and think it was a set-up promoted by Bill Clinton.

Likewise, no one here is going to mistake a couple of Democrat Congressmen in Baghdad for agents of the Bush Administration. Although it's possible that people in Iraq have been brainwashed to believe all Americans want to kill them and their wives and children, in which case Bonior and McDermott were lucky to get out alive.

45 posted on 10/03/2002 12:23:02 PM PDT by logician2u
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And in case this thread disappears, here's a link to another recent article on the same topic, this from Chicago Magazine. Incredible source?
46 posted on 10/03/2002 12:25:43 PM PDT by logician2u
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To: twigs
9/11 OKC connection bttt.
47 posted on 10/03/2002 12:30:33 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit
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To: Fred Mertz; Sean Hannity; *OKCbombing; Alamo-Girl; Gary Aldrich; amom; archy; aristeides; ...
We are still here, Fred, just can't be online 24 hours a day. OKCSubmariner has been banned, however. I would just to everyone on the ping list who feels the way most of do to write to JR and reqest that he be reinstated.

IMHO, Bush and ARI are well-prepared for any questions about an OKC Middle East connection. Ari blew off a question about it from World Net Daily in July. See story list. (in Blue Box above)

The REAL PROBLEM IS THAT NONE OF THE WHITE HOUSE REPORTERS ARE ASKING ANY QUESTIONS.

Note to Sean: Dan Burton is on CNN's "Talkback Live" today. I think Rumsfeld's comment signalled something. If the White House or the Pentagon won't talk, maybe Congress will. Particularly Burton.

Just wish some of these journalists would do their jobs (or at least let us know they're trying in this direction.)
48 posted on 10/03/2002 12:33:44 PM PDT by glorygirl
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To: Swordmaker
I believe you are correct, Swordmaker. I've wondered that myself over the past few years. I know they'll all pay someday. Just wish it was in THIS world and not the next. Oh well, patience...
49 posted on 10/03/2002 12:40:21 PM PDT by Marysecretary
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To: glorygirl
One of the men who appeared on the Smerconish show with Davis addressed the issue of why this has not gotten wings. He said, quite logically IMO, that once a decision is made that an issue is a certain thing (IOW, once it was decided that McVeigh & Nichols worked alone) it gets hard to reverse your path b/c too many people and egos are committed to the initial decision. He spent some time on the show developing this idea and it made a lot of sense.
50 posted on 10/03/2002 12:44:40 PM PDT by twigs
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