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At War With EVIL (FReeper GaryMontana)
Posted on 10/13/2002 11:09:03 PM PDT by blam
At War With EVIL
What did we (in America) learn from September 11, 2001 and the deaths of 3,000 people. I am tempted to admit: Absolutely nothing.
Among the many unlearned lessons of Day-Which-Will-Live-In-Infamy-II-- the necessity to control our borders, the need for a patriotic renewal and the importance of combating multiculturalism -- the most significant is the nature of Islam. You will note that I do not say militant Islam, or radical Islam, or Islamic extremism or other such weasel words but Islam, period.
Every one of the hijackers who flew airliners into the World Trade Center and Pentagon were professing and practicing Moslems, as is Osama bin Laden. The Al Qaeda terrorist network, is based in Moslem countries and supported financially by the so called pious Moslem leadership of Saudi Arabia.
The overwhelming majority of Moslem religious authorities who have spoken out on the subject, including those at the main mosque in Mecca and Egypts prestigious Al Azar University, either endorse or rationalize acts of terrorism. On a day when Americans were incinerated or buried under tons of rubble, Muslims from Nigeria to Indonesia, celebrated in the streets.
Sept. 11 was one chapter in a 1400-year jihad. Every day, the World Trade Center massacre is reenacted on a smaller scale somewhere in the world. Jewish women and children are burned alive in a bus in Israel. A missionary is beheaded in the Philippines, gunmen shoot up a church in Pakistan (deliberately firing into the prostrate bodies of women trying to shield their children). Ancient monasteries and convents are destroyed in Kosovo. Women are sentenced to death for adultery in Nigeria, Hindus are murdered in the Kashmir. In Denmark, the Muslim community there has put a $30,000 bounty on the heads of Jews and those who support Israel. Nuns are beheaded in Baghdad, Christians in Sudan are forced into slavery, and in Britain, Islam openly states it is going to take over not only the UK, but the whole world -- and the beat goes on.
Genocide in the Sudan, ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, religious persecution in Saudi Arabia, calls for another holocaust in mosques from Mecca to Gaza, the imposition of Islamic law in Nigeria, forced conversions in Indonesia, synagogues burned in France, Jews attacked across Europe these are everyday events, as Third World and much of the First slowly turns Islamic green.
Sadly our leaders, from President Bush on down, insist on peddling the absurdity that Islam is a religion of peace a creed of kindness and benevolence tragically and inexplicably corrupted by fanatics.
Why is the leadership of the West reluctant to confront manifest reality? The reason lies partly with our absurd foreign policy. We have declared certain Moslem nations to be our loyal allies including Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan. We would not want to offend these dear friends by saying something unflattering about their bloody, butcherly, dark ages faith.
Americans are naturally benevolent. Most of us are taught from childhood that is religion is good (and it does not matter which religion). As long as little Johnny believes in God and goodness, its inconsequential whether he lights candles, wears a skull cap to services or prays in the direction of Mecca.
This works with every religion except Islam.
Consider the following: Of the three major western religions: one was started by a lawgiver who helped to free slaves; one by a man of peace; the last one by a man who loved war and having sex with children. Mohammed not only led men into battle, he enjoyed marrying girls as young as six years old (it is in the Koran). The essence of his message is sick and disgusting. A holy war where you slaughter your enemies, while at the same time encouraging followers to have sex with the children they capture (as he did) for the glory of Allah. He even advised his followers to negotiate false peace treaties in order to lull their enemies.
For almost 1,400 years, that has been the reality of Islam. Within a century after the death of Mohammed, Islam spread throughout the Middle East and across North Africa. It overran the Iberian peninsula and was finally stopped in southern France. It spread eastward as far as the southern Philippines. It was not propagated by fresh-faced young men knocking on doors and announcing: Hello. Im from your local mosque. Have you considered the Koran? It was and is spread by force conversion by the sword or death. This is still in practice today.
Some will respond that all religions go through periods of violence, usually in their infancy. Christianity had its crusades and Inquisition, its forced conversions and expulsions. The evil committed in the name of Christ happened centuries ago. The evil committed in the name of the Prophet is going on now, as you read these words. Of 22 conflicts in the Third World, 20 involve Moslems versus someone else. Coincidence? In his brilliant book, Clash of Cultures and the Remaking of World Order, Samuel Huntington speaks of Islams bloody borders.
There is no Methodist Jihad, no Jewish Hasidic holy warriors, no Buddhist monk wanting to have 72 virgins waiting for him after a suicide bombing, no Hindu Holy men plotting to blow up people, no Southern Baptist suicide bombers, no Mormon elders preaching the annihilation of members of other faiths.
Islam is a warrior religion the perfect vessel for fanatics, the violence-prone, the envious and haters of all stripes. This is one reason why Islam is making so many converts among the peaceable denizens of our prison system.
Still, much of the West is addicted to a fairy-tale version of Islam. Christian and Jewish clergy fall all over themselves to have interfaith services with imams. Representatives of Moslem groups are invited to the White House. The president signs a Ramadan declaration. In California, public schools ask children to role-play at being Moslems. Our universities take carefully selected verses from the Koran and present them as the essence of the faith. All thats needed is a Moslem character on Sesame Street. Look its the Jihad Monster!
This perspective engenders a fatally false sense of security. Imagine, in 1940, Winston Churchill taking to the airwaves to announce Nazism is an ideology of peace which, regrettably, has been perverted by a few fanatics like Hitler and Goebbels. But most storm troopers and SS men are fine follows your friends and neighbors.
For the first thousand years of its history from the death of Mohammad to the 17th. century decline of the Ottoman empire, Islam was an expansionist force. For the next 300 years, as the West rose to preeminence, Islam receded. For the past four decades fueled by Arab oil wealth, a surplus population in the Middle East, the waning of the West and the rise of more virulent strains of the faith (Shiism, Wahhabism, Sunni fundamentalism) Islam is expanding once more.
Due to Moslem immigration and aggressive proselytizing, Islam is being exported to the West. Moslem populations are burgeoning throughout Western Europe. (In southern France, there are more mosques than churches.) In Judeo-Christian America, Islam is the fastest growing religion. It is also spreading down the coast of West Africa, through the Balkans (after Serbia, Macedonia is the next target) and up from Mindanao in the Philippines.
Wherever it comes, Islam brings its delightful customs child marriages, female circumcisions, rabid hatred toward Christians, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists and every other non-muslim, terrorism and support for terrorism and a virulent intolerance of other faiths.
Am I suggesting we declare war on over 1 billion million Moslems? The question is moot Islam has declared war on the rest of the human race. When one side knows its at war and the other thinks peace and brotherhood prevail, guess who wins?
Ultimately, it is not about Jews in Israel, or Orthodox Serbs in Kosovo, or Hindus in Kashmir, Buddhists in Thailand, or Maronite Catholics in Lebanon, Taoists in China, or Christians in Sudan and Nigeria, but all of us. As Ben Franklin would have it Either we will hang together, or surely we shall all hang separately.
TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: at; evil; islam; koran; mooselems; muslims; war; with
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Mr. Montana - I like your style. In your original post, most of what you said is easily verifiable just by following the news in the last year.
Let me tell you and all Freepers what I do not like. People like DeviantMind that come out and make bold statements and then they never come back. That person has to be reading this thread. Over fifty responses to that one thread and not one peep from him or her. I cannot understand, that if they do not like what is being said here, then why come here and post?
posted on 10/15/2002 5:17:02 AM PDT
To: MinuteGal; GaryMontana
Gary, thought you might like to read this.
MinuteGal, I, too, emailed this to my list. I'd like you to read some of the replies I received today and invite you to post some of the replies you received.
"Extremely powerful. It scares the heck out of me hat "we" have become so complacent -- especially after 9/11. I do not understand the memory loss of the humanity that was lost and the horror of it all, and how so many are kicking and screaming to, in effect, just wait and see what happens. It is appallingly scary."
"That was chilling."
"This guy has it right down to the wire! This article should be harolded from every rooftop in every city and town in America until every person: man, woman and child has heard it! I'm listening!"
To: Auntie Mame
Thank you for your kind words
Thank you for your kind words.
I would love to be a columnist
Imagine what would happen if he came right out and said that Islam is a sham religion and that we - America and the West - must destroy it. Hell, Congress would call for his head, the UN and the rest of the world would shun him
That's right--he's being called all sorts of names in Europe even now. The Eurowussies would go crazy if he did any more than he is doing now. But after a while, they will get used to the U.S. being like this, and they'll stop complaining. Doing the right thing is considered "extremism" and "unacceptable" now--but by persisting in doing the right thing, President Bush is gradually making it normal and acceptable again.
Got any facts to back up your statements?
BTTT...this thread deserves to be read!
Received one more interesting response to the mass email I sent out with your article:
"Wow, I can't believe the contents of this e-mail! At first I
wanted to just disregard it as quite one-sided and black & white, but
when I got to the end of it I found I couldn't argue with most of the
facts. Granted - most muslims practicing here in the states aren't
the militant ones (I've been to the parrish in Orange, and they're
very normal and friendly people), but that's not to say they couldn't
become radicalized at some future date. And when I defend Islam
against irrational attacks, I do point out that Christianity has been
at least as horrific (as this e-mail admits), but it's correct in
saying that that stuff is quite far in the past. As I hope these
atrocities will be way in the past of a future Muslim religion.
Maybe? I guess we'll see, and there's not much we can do about it
except make people aware of what's going on. As I've done by
forwarding this to the people in my address book. And I'm sure I'll
get some flack for that!
To: Auntie Mame
And when I defend Islam against irrational attacks, I do point out that Christianity has been at least as horrific...
Lets remember that the crusades were a response to the orginal muslim invasion for conversion by the sword!
posted on 10/17/2002 10:29:56 AM PDT
I'll begin by addressing the comment about my name. I chose it to represent the fact that I am not one to simply fall in line, to accept without questioning or to walk along like a lemming until I fall off a cliff because I was too ignorant to find things out for myself. Deviant, a derivative of "deviate" suggests that I choose to take the road less traveled, rather than follow every other footstep on a particular path.
Now, as far as Islam declaring war on America, that is a fallacy. I never stated that the individuals who have been making the attacks were not Muslim. That may very well be true, and in some cases we have that as fact. My point was that the accusations that -ISLAM- has declared war are ludicrous. A system of religious beliefs cannot declare war. Nations wage war, men declare war, factions fight wars, religions do not. To say that a religion declared a war is saying that an intangible concept has attacked a tangible nation-state. Again, ludicrous.
With the exception of the Catholic church, there is not a single known religion that boasts a seat of power, or a hierarchy of leadership presided over by a single, living individual. Islam most certainly does not have this. It is true that there are nations in the world that are considered "Islamic States," but these are autonomous, and often have as much difficulty negotiating with one another as they do with the United States.
To the person who claimed I hate the United States. Grow up. If I hated the United States, I would move. There are plenty of countries in the world that I could go to where I would be able to avoid breathing toxic fumes from the same airspace as simple minded, ignorant conformists. But I am a born citizen of these United States, and take great pride in the fact that I live here. I am also proud to say, with moderate certainty, that the individuals who founded this country were not close minded snobs who spoke out against anything that did not fit within their precious paradigm.
And to the challenge to prove the post wrong, I don't have to. You've done that for me by being unwilling, but most importantly _unable_ to locate any reliable evidence to support your claims. An effective debate flows with one individual making a statement, the second party challenging the statement and then the claimant presenting evidence to support his claims. When the claimant is unable to do so, he loses credibility, and thus the debate is over.
A note: I respect the right that each of you have to believe what you want, and to say what you want. However, I also have those same rights, and will enjoy them as I see fit. This includes calling people out when false statements are spewed across a public form.
A second note: to Mr. Montana, who wrote the post that started this thread, I do want to say one thing. While I disagree with what you said, and have enjoyed pointing out the inherent flaws in your argument, I AM impressed with your writing. You seem like an intelligent and talented, albeit uninformed and bigoted person. Kudos.
Devon A. Weir
To: Red Jones
very well, I'll use resources. For support on my argument, consult the Q'uran (or Koran, if you prefer Anglicized spellings), Patterns of Global Terrorism from 1996-present (which show that just as many terrorist attacks are by non-Islamic groups as there are by Islamic militants). Speak with any Muslims you may know in your community, and get first hand accounts on their views of the attacks.
If you prefer, I will have a properly formatted, annotated bibliography drawn up.
oh, for the most part I like what is being said. I Just disagreed with the lack of differentiation between "Islam" and "Arab."
The fact that many Arabs are Muslim has caused many to assume that all attacks are per Islamic belief.
And the reason I come, despite disagreeing... is because I can at least respect some of the people here, even if there are a few who cannot resist the temptation to be insulting.
The Crusades were about obtaining land. The religious aspect was merely a pretense to garner support. It was political and expansionalist.
But if you would like another example, how does the Inquisition sound? Christianity at its best.
Again....the moose-limbs invaded europe first!The europeans wanted it back! the crusades and the inqusition were not founded on Christian principles...the jihads ARE founded on their "religious" principles... Dont confuse the tenents of a faith with the actions of its "followers"; Christianity says to love your neighbor as yourself; islam says if your neighbor is not a muslim, then when the time is right, kill him.
But basically , islam is not a religion anyway: its a world -wide movement for world domination!
posted on 10/17/2002 12:26:01 PM PDT
I must admit that for a piece of narrow minded literature which could rival the foul bigotry that spews forth from Jerry Fallwell's mouth, that it is at the very least well-written.
However that's all it is. Apart from bigotry and hatred there's no more substance to his thoughts than Anna Nicole smith has common sense.
I find it odd that people refuse to acknowledge the atrocities committed by Christian and Jewish fundamentalists alike. Every religion has a radical group which inflicts pain and suffering on others. And to claim that one religion is inherently evil because of the actions of a radical group or two shows the lack of understanding, and the lack in depth of perception needed by people as a whole if we are to make decisive strides in securing the safety of -our- people. Not others.
It is perhaps time we refrain from sticking our nose into the business of others, and cease in telling other countries how they should live, how they should conduct their business like any other American. Our country's world presence isn't appreciated because of jealousy of what we have, it isn't appreciated because of what we don't have - which is a willingness to understand and accept that other cultures are fine the way they are.
What happened on 9-11 was most horrible. And those responsible -should- be punished. However, one has to wonder whether or not our country's attitude in involving itself in the affairs of others only to leave them in worse shape than they were in to begin with had something to do with it. Maybe, if we took responsibility for our own actions rather than rattle the sabre at others, we wouldn't be facing so much opposition in the first place.
posted on 10/17/2002 12:52:45 PM PDT
The Crusades sought to take away "the Holy land," as it were, in case you forgot.
And you may not be aware, but Islam considers Christians and Jews to be "People of the Book." It's the HUMAN variable of the equation that causes the problem
To: TheJFan; GaryMontana
You signed on to Free Republic today just to say that?
posted on 10/17/2002 2:05:37 PM PDT
When did the date of subscription begin to be more important than the substance of a person's statement, or their ability to hold constructive arguments and conversations?
To: DeviantMind; GaryMontana
One of your deviant buddies, huh?
posted on 10/17/2002 2:24:22 PM PDT
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