CNN: Archaeologists Report 1st Direct Evidence of Jesus

Oct. 21, 2002 | CNN

[jern]

BREAKING: Archaeologists Report 1st Direct Evidence of Jesus

[webstersII]

This was all thrashed out a long time ago.

When you say that she didn't give birth to James, you have no proof of this. You are telling others that they can't make statements that James was the biological brother yet you assert that Mary positively did not give birth to James.

You can't have it both ways. If there's not enough evidence for one viewpoint then there's not enough for the other, either. And saying it was all decided by 500 A.D. doesn't wash, either. If it were settled we wouldn't be discussing it here.

[ksen]

One side question: Have the moslems built a mosque yet on the site whwre this was found.

LOL! I'm sure that is one of the reasons the owner is trying to stay anonymous, so he can keep the horde of mosque builders out of his house.

Or another thought, when do the Muslims demand this ossuary because it is the fourth most holy item to Islam? ;^)

[Thinkin' Gal]

Even if "lived together" is used, the meaning is the same. That is, the timeframe described is when they were espoused, but did not live together yet, meaning the marriage had not been consummated, which is what would have happened when they did eventually live (join) together.

The idea Mary and Joseph had a real marriage, tends to irritate some folks.

[William Terrell]

Mary is not worshipped, as she is not divine. She is venerated.

Near where I live there is a statue of Mary in a field. People kneel before the statue and pray, and afterwards leave money in a box. Sure seems like idol worship and sacrifice to same to me.

[katana]

... therefore Joseph's son by Mary. I think most of us understood what you meant and let he who has never posted a typo cast the first flame.

I don't have a Bible in front of me, but doesn't one of the Gospels specifically state that Joseph knew his wife Mary after the birth of Jesus ? I never got this "perpetual virgin" business, but I suppose it goes hand in hand with the Roman Catholic Church's requirement for a celibate priesthood.

[OLD REGGIE]

In my translation, Matthew says lived together, not came together. Luke is a better source for Mary anyway. And before you tell me, yes, I know, Luke says first-born son. But, James was not a full brother to Jesus.

Until we're all using the same translations, this is all useless.

Until further notice I will assume you are using the NAB for your version of Matthew 1:18. I have taken the liberty of posting several versions, all of which include Matthew 1:25, which completes the Chapter.

Matthew 1:

RSV
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit;
25 but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus.

Douay-Rheims
18 Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost.
25 And he knew her not till she brought forth her first born son: and he called his name Jesus.

NAB
18 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, 7 but before they lived together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit.
25 He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus.

NIV
18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.
25 But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

How do you explain Matthew 1:25 from any version?

[ksen]

Even if "lived together" is used, the meaning is the same.

I know, but I am trying to be accomodating right now. ;^)

[Desdemona]

Since you all have made up your minds on this, I'll quit talking and pray for you.

[ksen]

Thanks Reg. You are the master of coming up with and comparing the different translations. ;^)

[OLD REGGIE]

Since you all have made up your minds on this, I'll quit talking and pray for you.

Before throwing in the towel would you mind giving your interpretation of Matthew 1:25?

[PleaseNoMore]

But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son.

IOW, Joseph did not have sex with his wife UNTIL she bore the Messiah??

The customs of the time of Jesus were very explicit concerning burials. James would not have been called his brother had he not been his brother.

As for the concept of stepbrothers, where does it mention that Mary remarried a man who had kids ( they would have had to have been the other guys kids if she was a perpetual virgin ).

Just curious.

[Delbert]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/10/1021_021021_christianrelicbox.html <---Much mor einfo here from National Geographis...heres an excerpt.......

Jesus and James

Whether Jesus was the son of God is a theological problem, said Lemaire. But historians don't doubt the existence of either James or Jesus; both are mentioned frequently in early historical accounts.

Following the death of Jesus in 29 A.D., James assumed leadership of the Christian church in Jerusalem until he himself was martyred in 62 A.D. According to biblical accounts, he was one of the first apostles to see Jesus after his resurrection.

He is referred to as the brother of Jesus in both the Bible and in contemporary historical accounts. In Matthew 13:55-56, for instance, Jesus is said to have four brothers and two sisters. But the exact nature of these relationships—whether they were full siblings by blood, half siblings, or cousins—has been open to interpretation.

"If you're Catholic, you think they're cousins because the perpetual virginity of Mary is official church doctrine," said Witheringon. "But there are a lot of problems in the historical record with that."

"When James is referred to as the 'brother of our lord' in the New Testament, the word used means 'blood brother,'" he continued. "It would have to be qualified in context to mean something different."

A second interpretation is that James and the other siblings are half-brothers and -sisters, Joseph's children from a prior marriage.

"The ossuary gives us another piece of evidence outside the Bible that these are blood brothers and sisters of Jesus," said Witherington.

[Tao Yin]

The RCC has a celibate priesthood because of property laws. Long time ago, property needed to be owned by a person. So if a priest was married and died, the church would belong to his wife. Not acceptable to the RCC, so priest needed to be single; therefore celibate.

[OLD REGGIE]

Thanks for the National Geographis reference. I have bookmarked the site.

Since the Holy Spirit is the father of Jesus, all his brothers and sisters would be 1/2 brothers and sisters. The common part of the 1/2 is that Mary is the mother of all the children.

[SerpentDove]

>>I agree with the Protestants, I think James was Jesus' son, and I think he had other brothers and sisters. <<

What? That's a new one on me. We must not hang around the same Protestants.

[SerpentDove]

>> HEHE LOL MAJOR TYPO

I ment James is Jesus' brother.<<

LOL

[weegee]

In my Presbyterian Christian singles group, the minister did say that Jesus had siblings and that they are mentioned in the Bible (not to any great extent).

Could you stand the pressure? "Why can't you be like you brother"? (but actually I guess that we are called upon to be more like Him).

[weegee]

Even if there absolute proof, there would still be those who would insist otherwise (we have seen such behavior from those who banked too much in believing BeelzaBubba to admit that he was a chronic liar).

I don't require "proof". I have faith.

[weegee]

I don't think that Ted Turner/CNN could ever prove that Jesus never existed; what they seek to prove is that Jesus was "just a man". It would seem that Ted Turner/CNN are on the same page as the Islamists in this regard.

[Lyford]

But, James was not a full brother to Jesus.

Right. Half-brother. Same mother (Mary), different Fathers (Holy Spirit, Joseph). If Mary had no other children, then Jesus had no biological siblings or half-siblings at all...