Was Patriarchy a Women's Scheme to Control Men?

self | 10/30/2002 | SauronOfMordor

[SauronOfMordor]

Does Patriarchy Benefit Women?

Much has been said in feminist circles about how women are oppressed by patriarchy. Patriarchy literally means “rule by fathers” and is a system where men effectively are in control of property and decision-making. An important characteristic of patriarchal systems is that they are generally also patrilineal (a child’s descent is described by who his father, and father’s father were, rather than through the mother’s line).

The question I’m putting forth here is: Does the patriarchal/patrilineal system act more to oppress women, or is it actually more a way for women to tap and control male energy? My assertion is that patriarchal society creates an incentive structure that enables women to harness male energy and initiative for the benefit of women and their children.

In patrilineal societies, men tend to be confident that the children of their household are theirs, and take an active role in their upbringing. The men also tend to perform long-range planning, and invest time and effort into making life better for their offspring.

Matrilineal societies have been recorded in early history, and still exist in sections of Africa. The matrilineal societies of ancient times did not leave much in the way of historical record. In modern times, where they exist, they are generally poor and technologically primitive. To some extent, the welfare enclaves of our inner cities are increasingly matrilineal. In the developing matrilineal societies in our inner cities, the defining characteristic is that males have no permanent attachment to the children they father, nor to the women who are the mothers of their children. In such an environment, males tend not to make long-range plans for the well-being of their children, nor do they make much effort to create the institutions that would be needed for long-term stability and prosperity.

In classic patriarchal cultures, men are motivated to amass wealth through the acquisition and enhancement of productive facilities: land, ships, businesses – things that will produce revenue to support a family, and which will provide an inheritance to pass along to their children. Part of the motivation is from love and emotional attachment. A large part of it is also pride and self-image -- the desire to leave a legacy, to be remembered as a great person after he's gone.

Having children who are emotionally attached to you has mutual benefits: the children can rely on support during their vulnerable years, and parents can have the expectation of support in their declining years. This can be very important in societies where survival is not assured unless you have a committed provider looking out for you.

Once someone has property, he has a strong incentive to promote institutions to protect and preserve his property. He bands together with his neighbors, in mutual protection. He has an incentive to cooperate with his neighbors to create improvements for their mutual benefit: roads, irrigation systems, etc. The incentive system promotes the institutions needed to preserve itself

Now let’s consider the incentive system for males in a matrilineal environment. When a man cohabits with a woman, he has no assurance of any of the children being his. He is less likely to experience any emotional bonding with them, and may consider them an interference with his relationship with the woman. He will have no expectation that the children will take care of him in his old age, and will be much less likely to make any investment in the children’s well-being.

In such an environment, the male won’t expect to survive much past the point where he’s no longer strong enough to obtain food and resources through his own strength. He’s likely to be invited to share the bed of a woman as long as he provides for her and protects her, and invited to leave when she acquires a better provider. The incentive will be to acquire wealth the fastest and easiest way he can: by getting together into a strong gang and taking it from somebody else. In matrilineal societies, whether in Somalia or South Central LA, the men tend to band together into warring gangs rather than engage in productive work.

In a competition between a patriarchal society and a matrilineal society, the patriarchal society will tend to prevail. The men of the patriarchal society are more likely to stand and fight off encroachments to territory they consider their property, while the men of the matrilineal society will be more likely to seek easier targets in another direction. A man will fight for his wife, his children, and his property – they are HIS, and part of his self-identity. A man is less likely to endure long-term conflict to protect the property of a woman he considers to be just a temporary girlfriend – it’s simpler to just find another girlfriend in an area with less conflict.

Comparing a patriarchal culture with a matrilineal culture, the advantages for women become apparent. By channeling male energy and imagination into long-term planning, patriarchy creates an environment where women and children are better provided for and better protected, thus better assuring long-term survival for all concerned.

[msru]

Of course you feel that the one that asking the other out should pay, because men are the ones that do the asking nearly 100% of the time.

Man asks woman out- Man Pays.

Woman asks man out- Man Pays.

Neither ask the other out- Man Pays.

[Nick Danger]

If men would learn to just not marry or impregnate these women, things would change drastically in time.

I'd hate to think that yours is the only way, but I suspect you are right. One can try to explain this to people thoughtfully, as Sauron did in the opening article, but most people just don't get it.

BikerNYC came up with an almost liberal -- certainly 'unconstrained vision' -- claim that any old thing will work, as if the societal arrangements which produce civilization are totally arbitrary. HLL can't get past the idea that any discussion of this subject is "women bashing," and Illbay just goes straight to disruption, without even bothering to offer an opinion.

I think the people who either don't get it, or don't choose to get it, are a vast majority. And so yes, there will be no cooperative, thoughtful movement toward some societal arrangement that has men in it. Instead what we'll have is more government playing husband, and more crushing of actual flesh-and-blood men so that government can do that.

And you're right, it winds up with some huge number of men refusing to play the game anymore, because there's just nothing in it for them except getting screwed over by the courts.

My sense is that we might not be that far away from a safe and affordable male contraceptive. That will change this dynamic quite a bit, because it will allow the men with something on the ball to remove themselves from the target environment without surgery.

[sonserae]

Whatever bitter boy.

[BuddhaBoy]

I'd hate to think that yours is the only way, but I suspect you are right. One can try to explain this to people thoughtfully, as Sauron did in the opening article, but most people just don't get it.

And they wont get it, until they are forced to by nessesity.

This is because it is becoming more impossible every day to have a logical discussion without women (and a growing number of men) getting emotional, and forgeting the argument altogether.

Men and women are increasingly at war, with women at war with OTHER women at the same time. All because they bought that feminist crap, which is just as fraudulent as the racial crap, where somehow whole classes of people are supposed to behave exactly the same.

Whenever I meet a woman who is an actual INDIVIDUAL, instead of some Cosmo-Programmed, pre-plump, pampered princess, I want to rejoice. Many women today come with their own set of talking points, as if they were getting them in a daily fax from the N.O.W. each morning.

I blame men too, the pussies. Most today are so afraid of speaking the truth to a woman, that they dont deserve the manhood swinging beneath them.

Like most wars, this will be resolved by force. Men will get fed up with these 'chipsters', and only come near them by appointment. When women lose the governmental powers that come with motherhood and marriage, they will have no hope but to relearn how to negotiate power with men, and not expect it being bestowed by a Judge.

Right now, I just enjoy watching the fireworks, and limiting my contact to women secure in themselves.

[SauronOfMordor]

Thanks for the compliments....I'll buy you a cup of coffee for that!

I'll take a long-distance cup -- I'm on the east coast 8-)

You're experiencing the problem of high-income, well-educated women: you want a man who is at least as capable as you, but you're at the extreme end of the bell curve, and there aren't too many guys at that altitude with you. Men have it easier: we'll go with women who make much less than us and are less well-educated. This means our selection-space is much bigger. A professional man will date a supermarket checkout-clerk, if she's cute, but a professional woman is less likely to.

[BuddhaBoy]

As far as a male contraceptive; if an effective one is ever invented, SURELY womens groups will try to have it outlawed as sexist and discrimatory, on the basis of it removing a woman's right to chose (to ruin a man's life).

Others will argue that large groups of men being able to run around having sex with women without consequences will lead to the downfall of society.

Also, the potential for legal action is HUGE. Women will say that their right to children has been attacked, with Pharmacutical companies being deep-pocket defendants in cahoots with the (former)spouse to deny her (faux)constitutional right to confiscatory child support.

Men are just better off with vasectomies and variety until women come back down to earth.

[SauronOfMordor]

And you're right, it winds up with some huge number of men refusing to play the game anymore, because there's just nothing in it for them except getting screwed over by the courts.

The movie "Fight Club" offered a disturbing vision of what happens when men get sufficiently alienated from society. I would encourage people to see it.

When society is sufficiently unrewarding to men, the tendency is to take a sledgehammer and smash the foundation, then sit back and laugh as it all comes crashing down.

[Melas]

Buddhaboy, I have never met a single human who I've ever felt so diametrically opposed to, as I feel with you.

Hell, I'll even let the important things like love, devotion, and committment slide, and argue about boobs. You and I are so different that we can't even agree on those. I like boobs, silicone and natural. Doesn't really matter to me. I like blondes too, and no, I really don't care if it comes out of a bottle.

[FITZ]

we can't find a decent man in this town...When we do, guess where they are? Yes, they are right there buying the trophy wife who has fake boobs and no brains.

Maybe they aren't the decent men. It sounds like "decent" men means ones who make a lot of money but maybe some of the decent men are the ones making $40,000. Women don't always have to marry "up". Anyhow if you can beat them join them, there's always trophy men with no brains.

[BuddhaBoy]

Hey, to each his own. I like a bit of jiggle myself, and fake boobs dont move much. Blonds? Whatever.

[sonserae]

You are very correct with your statements. My friends who are also successful and single have the same problem. We are really sweet girls...but most guys don't want to be with a woman who's smarter and richer than they are. My success in business doesn't have anything to do with my love for a man...but they are the ones that make an issue of it, not me.

[sonserae]

I just broke off an engagement with a guy who made about $40,000 a year. Money didn't matter to me...what ultimately did matter though, was he was so insecure he felt the need to put me down in front of my friends and family to make himself look better. He'd say horribly degrading things in front of my friends....and my friends who know me, knew nothing he said had any truth to it. He ultimately showed everyone how foolish he was...including himself...as I gave the ring back, he realized that his insecurities sabotaged everything.

[waterstraat]

Men and women are not equal, with neither superior,

If a woman acts like a woman, and acts like she LIKES being a woman, she wont have to worry about buying coffee, because men will line up to buy her coffee

I totally agree. From the time I was a little girl, my mother told me that if I look like a lady, dress like a lady, speak as a lady, and act like a lady, I will be treated as a lady. From personal experience I have found that to be so true my entire life. When I see other women in tattered jeans and sweatshirts with short hair and mannish traits, walking and acting like a man, I can clearly see why they are not treated like a lady.

[waterstraat]

You obviously don't live in L.A. The guys here want their coffee bought for them...

I never spent much time in L.A, but you must be looking in the wrong places. There are plenty of men out there who are decent and respectful, if you do your part and be a lady. I have found it very hard for most men to NOT be a gentleman when he is with me. My own mannerisms and appearance demand men around me to be gentlemen, I expect it, and demand it.

And it has nothing to do with looks, or big boobs. Looks and big boobs will attract men, but just men who are soley looking for quick sex.

Try a different location, change your appearance and what you expect, and you will be amazed how men change.

[GirlNextDoor]

Does this mean the man or woman should lord it over their partner? Absolutely not

Bingo! I think that's the key. Even among my family/friends who live out the theory of patriarchy in their own homes seem to miss that at times.

I believe equality was always intended in the system. An equality of honor.

BOTH the man's and woman's positions held in equal honor and esteemed. Even glorified by eachother because of it's ability to complete one and all.

Btw, (total aside) site's faster in the mornings, it seems.
Wonder if it's cause any dems hitting the site are still sleeping...

[BuddhaBoy]

I dont understand why some women think that resentment and anger are somehow feminine traits, and that they should be overlooked, because they somehow DESERVE love.

Amazing how when a woman cant find a man, for most of them it is AUTOMATIC that it is the fault of the men, and not the fault of the woman in question. Last time I checked, men and women were still getting together in droves, so for those having a problem, it would seem natural that they would look inward, right?

Well that aint happining, sister. These gals have taken a caveman (male) approach to their dating, leading with their expectations, unaware that men can see their agenda like a neon sign plastered on their overly madeup faces.

Your mother was dead on, and I suspect men line up for you. There is something about a woman being NICE and SWEET that men respect. That is different then the "You better love me, or you are an asshole!" attitude that is so rampant among women today.

I maintain, in this day and age, men should date women, love them, have fun with them, spend time with them, but be very careful about marrying them, because if you choose wrong, you could end up with the Medusa, with the full power and authority of the federal government behind her, as she proceeds to whipsaw her catch into a quivering, slaving alimony-avoidance dancer, content to pick up the bon-bons she drops on the floor that roll under her mumu-dress.

Just say no, guys. It aint worth it. LOL!

[Desdemona]

...but most guys don't want to be with a woman who's smarter and richer than they are.

You can say that again. Try playing Trivial Pursuit with a guy who isn't a bookworm. It's very painful for them.

They don't want a woman who's better at their profession, either (which is why I'm looking outside of mine). They also don't want someone who's interests don't fit into a neat little box. When a guy I knew called my interests hi-felutant (sp), not that I was really interested, I wrote him off.

[Semaphore Heathcliffe]

bttt

[longtermmemmory]

equality of honor? I like that.

Men won't marry... for whatever reason, it seems mens objectives within forming a family are the same.

Modern women, for whatever reason, have changed standards and are looking to marry under their new new rules.

Men don't want to be married under the new new and soon to be new rules.

Its like the joke posted of FR a while ago.

A women spends all her time looking for the perfect man. One day she finds him but he does not have time for her because the perfect man was looking for the perfect woman.

(demonstrating the arrogance of assuming...)

[twigs]

is it any wonder black men are flocking to Nation of Islam in droves, considering it’s precepts?

I've read some things where black male converts to Islam are saying just about the same thing that you are.