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Democrats in Distress - and their Suicide Queen (vanity, about Pelosi and the Democrats in general)
My Pointed Head | 11/08/02 | xm177e2

Posted on 11/08/2002 3:22:38 PM PST by xm177e2

The Suicide Queen

The Democratic party was rocked recently by the success of Republicans in the midterm elections. But something much bigger just happened, something much worse for the party than a temporary defeat. Permanent damage is being done to the Democratic party.

Democrats lost the midterm elections because the party leadership was disorganized and had no coherent agenda. There was no substance at the top. And the Democrats could have easily won these elections, with a different strategy.

Terry McAuliffe, the head of the DNC--the Number One Democrat--is an excellent fundraiser. But that's all he is, he's just a fundraiser, and not a true leader or capable politician. After the election, McAuliffe said things weren't so different from before and bragged Democrats had raised three times as much money this year as any previous midterm election, and went on bragging that he made Republicans spend a lot of their money to take the Senate. If you believe McAuliffe, just ask a Republican if s/he's hurting right now because Terry made his party spend a lot of money to get the Senate.

The tasteless Wellstone "memorial service" also had Terry's fingerprints all over it. Instead of coasting to victory on the sympathy vote, Mondale barely lost to Coleman.

Tom Daschle and Dick Gephardt both refused to either support Bush in the War on Terror or oppose him. They just pointed out there were risks involved, and showed a lot of "concern." Refusing to take a stance on Iraq is what cost the Democrats this election.

Al Gore took a stance against the war on Saddam, but offered no constructive alternatives. He tried to turn the election into a referendum about him and what happened in Florida. If Florida were the big issue, Democrats would have won, their base would have been energized. But the Democratic base doesn't care about Florida anymore, that's clear from the Republican victory.

But what were the Democrats options? They had three real choices, before the election:

1 To take a stand against the war and Bush in general
2 To take a stand in favor of the war, and in favor of a left-wing social/economic agenda
3 To refuse to take a stand on the war, show a lot of "concern," but not be concerned enough to actually do anything.

They chose option 3 (straddling between options 1 and 2). Option 3 failed miserably. Democrats are now at a fork in the road, and must pick which way to go. Remaining where the party is will just ensure defeat again, and again, and again.

Democrats do best when the issues voters are focusing on are social issues, or Bush's mishandling of the economy. Republicans do best when national security is the issue. Voters trust Republicans more on this than the party of Bonior and McDermott.

The Democratic leadership failed to set the agenda for this election. People saw it in part as a referendum on Iraq. "Do I trust Bush to handle Saddam Hussein?" And the answer was resoundingly yes. The Democrats who succeeded in getting elected in competetive districts were mostly supporters of Bush when it came to the war.

This election was a referendum on the conflict with Iraq. And Bush won. That's hard for many on the left to accept, but it's also critically important. If the Democrats had recognized this, and gone with option 2 (in favor of the war), they could have run on the slogan "Strong on Defense, and Strong on Social Programs too" (or whatever), they wouldn't have had to leave Democratic voters who favored the war with the choice between social security and national security. If Democrats had run like this, they would have kept the Senate.

Jonas 'Martin' Frost III, a very liberal member of the House of Representatives wanted to do just that. He has a lot of experience operating in hostile territory, he's a Democrat from Texas, and he's been successful there (at least according to his press conference (look for "Rep. Martin Frost (D-TX) News Conference ")). He also spoke about supporting the war:

As to the question of the foreign policy and Iraq. The President successfully won, I believe, by standing for a strong America. There are people who feel differently within our party, but in the swing districts, in the marginal districts, in the closely contested districts where Democratic incumbents were reelected by narrow margins, almost every one of those incumbents voted with the President on the issue of Iraq. I do not think the Democratic party will rise or fall as a majority party in the House of Representatives on the issue of foreign policy. We have to make our case on domestic policy and let members vote their conscience on the issue of foreign policy [and] on war and peace. And if we try and make that the overriding issue, if we try and make defense foreign policy the overriding issue, we will lose, because the country is with the President on that issue.

If Democrats had ran the way Frost ran, they would have to support Bush's war, but they would have the mandate to run social issues, and would have more say about the war than they do now. If Democrats rally around Frost, they could win back the Senate in 2004. But they won't.

The idea behind road 1 (being openly anti-war, anti-Bush, and stridently left-wing) is that it will excite the party base, which stayed home this election because the party leadership was too moderate. And if the party base votes, according to road 1,

Nancy Pelosi wants to take the party down road 1. She's one of the most outspoken, far-left members of congress in the nation. She's a member of the Democratic Socialists of America, which is affiliated with the International Socialist Organization (the famous Socialist Internationale).

That might get hardcore democrats excited, but it really, really, really won't go over well in swing states or moderate/conservative areas. And conservative Democrats will find it harder to get elected when their Republican opponents link them to the "San Francisco Socialist" running the House. As Frost said, "I will tell you that, during the election... some republican candidates in swing districts did talk about the fact that... their democratic opponent would be aligned with the liberal leadership of the Democratic party."

Martin Frost has withdrawn his candidacy to become the new House Minority Leader, leaving it for Pelosi to take unchallenged (because she has the votes). This is a terrible, terrible mistake. This is suicide for the Democratic Party.

The idea that Democrats can wage ideological holy war against President Bush comes from their mistaken belief that the country is split 50/50. It's not, that's a myth. 50/50 only works if both parties are running towards the middle (as Frost wants the Democrats to do). But the nation is not split 50/50 between socialists and capitalists. Democrats will find the nation split more like 60/40. Republicans will slaughter them in the next elections if they don't go back to the middle.

And, to make matters worse for Democrats, if the country is split 60/40, Republicans can afford to ramp up their rhetoric a little, move a little further to the right, and still win 55/45. So by running to the left, the Democratic Party is only encouraging the Republicans (who are in power right now) to move further to the right. Not a good strategy.

Why is the Democratic Party--specifically, the members of the House of Representatives--taking such a stupid position? Why are they committing political suicide? I think the answer is George W. Bush. His enemies have gone insane with rage against him, a rage that is just not shared by the general public. Democrats will have to acknowlege this, and come back to reality, unless they want to suffer more and worse defeats.

Conservative and moderate Democrats aren't going to stand idly by while the Suicide Queen Pelosi destroys their party. The infighting that will come of this threatens the party itself, it's an existential battle for its soul. It's going to get very, very, very ugly.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: haroldford; internationale; martinfrost; minorityleader; nancypelosi; socialists
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To: bain_sidhe
I'm sorry, you are correct, she probably isn't a socialist and I have no proof she carries a card.

I got my information from a right-wing source (one of the posts here about "socialists in congress") and I assumed the Progressive Caucus was connected with the DSA because of the Google Cache from their web site. I just assumed the DSA was operating the same way as the WWP, trying to hide their hand in things.

101 posted on 11/10/2002 3:24:47 AM PST by xm177e2
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To: bain_sidhe
Recent legislation does exempt small business from a lot. That's the work of the post-'94 Republican Congress. The '93 tax increase -- pre-Republican Congress -- did not include such exemptions.
102 posted on 11/10/2002 4:29:12 AM PST by aristeides
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To: xm177e2
I don't think she carries a card or considers herself a socialist either. She's always presented herself as a staunchly Democrat, and there's nothing in her background to suggest otherwise. It is worth being aware of the connection though, as well as the connection of the WWP to the anti-war protest in DC. It's a common tactic for one side to try to discredit the other side's ideas by pointing to the involvement of a few kooks. And those supporting the "non-kook" position need to be aware if kooks are involved. First, to be sure the kooks don't hijack the movement for their own nefarious purposes, and second, to be prepared to counter the "opposition" when they try to use the kooks to discredit the non-kooks.

On a side note, thanks for the link to Corn's article about the WWP and the protest in DC. I just read an article that mentioned the connection, but didn't go into any detail, and was wondering where I could get more information on it. Several people on DU went to the protest, and I don't think any of them knew of the involvement of the WWP or ANSWER, or what those groups are saying. This article is a good heads-up to those who oppose the war to exercise caution in aligning themselves with a group before they know what the group stands for. As Corn says, a large percentage of Americans are against the war (at least, right now) and even more are against unilateral action. It would be terrible if that entire opposition could be demonized and discredited just because Ramsey Clark thinks Saddam is a swell guy who hasn't done anything wrong.
103 posted on 11/10/2002 11:24:06 AM PST by bain_sidhe
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To: aristeides
Small quibble - the FMLA was passed by pre-Republican Congress, and IT exempts small businesses. But I don't doubt the benefits of divided government. And (surprise, surprise) I actually appreciated the Republican "obstructionist" role during Clinton's term in a few cases - for example blocking the worst parts of Clinton's "anti-terrorism" bill introduced after the Oklahoma bombing. (Or was it the first WTC bombing? Time flies, memory fades.) I wish they had done the same with the egregiously mis-named "PATRIOT" Act. I didn't like Clinton's search and surveillance provisions back then, when "my gal" was running the Justice Department - and I like the steroidal version of those provisions a damn sight less with Ashcroft in charge.

Memo to self and anybody else who will listen... NEVER give your friends power you wouldn't want your enemies to have!
104 posted on 11/10/2002 11:44:08 AM PST by bain_sidhe
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To: xm177e2
Conservative and moderate Democrats aren't going to stand idly by while the Suicide Queen Pelosi destroys their party. The infighting that will come of this threatens the party itself, it's an existential battle for its soul. It's going to get very, very, very ugly.

The democrat party sold its soul to Satan decades ago, the rats are just fighting over the corpse now. If Ford was allowed the post that Pelosi will get, I would really be worried that the demorats were getting smart. But it looks like they will go hard left and bury themselves and we can all enjoy the show!

105 posted on 11/10/2002 12:01:18 PM PST by Walkin Man
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To: timestax
its become Bubba's personal slush fund

BUMP $$$$$

106 posted on 11/10/2002 1:15:49 PM PST by timestax
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To: timestax
bump
107 posted on 11/10/2002 2:33:43 PM PST by timestax
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To: timestax
its become Bubba's personal slush fund

That's why McAwful won't be fired.

108 posted on 11/10/2002 2:37:59 PM PST by aristeides
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To: bain_sidhe
Ahah! I found out a lot more about the Progressive Caucus/DSA connection. The DSA really did host the PC web site, that's a formal link.

And in that article it says TNR uses the same 60/40 term as I did! I feel so special now.

109 posted on 11/11/2002 4:26:05 AM PST by xm177e2
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Here is a link to the TRB article.
110 posted on 11/11/2002 4:30:11 AM PST by xm177e2
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To: xm177e2
>>See also this thread: Pelosi to Ford: 'The Race is Over'<<

How hard would it have been for Nancy to say, "I look forward to a vigorous contest with one of the bright young leaders of our Party, and I just hope that I have enough friends to prevail"?

Sounds a lot better than, "Get back in your place, boy", doesn't it?

111 posted on 11/11/2002 4:36:21 AM PST by Jim Noble
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To: Leto
>>The parties are 50/50 when the rats lie well enough to fool 15% of the people<<

I think you are exactly right.

RATs have 3 choices in a campaign:

1) Tell the truth about their goals and objectives-disaster (1984, 1988, 1994)

2) Say nothing about their goals and objectives-disaster (2002)

3) Lie about their goals and objectives-victory (1992, 1996).

The rise of the internet has made lying more difficult for them, however, because their media megaphones can be contradicted in real time and at little cost. Therefore, they are struggling between door #1 and door #2 (tell the truth or shut up).

Ain't it sweet?

112 posted on 11/11/2002 4:43:05 AM PST by Jim Noble
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To: aristeides
bump
113 posted on 11/11/2002 10:29:10 AM PST by timestax
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To: xm177e2
I found out a lot more about the Progressive Caucus/DSA connection. [...] And in that article it says TNR uses the same 60/40 term as I did! I feel so special now.

Yeah, but that's the World Net Daily! That would be like me quoting The New Re... uh, wait... (G)

(For those interested, here's a link to that New Republic article. I should also note, though, that The New Republic lost some of its credibility in progressive circles earlier this year when Roger Hertog (chairman of the conservative Manhattan Institute) and Michael Steinhardt (DLC BigWig) bought a two-thirds interest in it. Personally, I've seen some drift to the right - not a lot, mind you, just articles here and there that had me scratching my head over the fact, that they were coming from TNR. For more on the "liberal" take on the buy-out, check this article from The American Prospect.)

Seriously, this quote bears examining:

The Democratic Socialists of America's chief organizing goal is to work within the Democratic Party and remove the stigma attached to "socialism" in the eyes of most Americans. "Stress our Democratic Party strategy and electoral work," explains an organizing document of the DSA. "The Democratic Party is something the public understands, and association with it takes the edge off. Stressing our Democratic Party work will establish some distance from the radical subculture and help integrate you to the milieu of the young liberals."

Again, it's a matter of what they say they're doing. I haven't seen any Dems pushing socialism - as defined by the DSA - in their platform or their legislative initiatives. And even the Progressive Caucus's economic stimulus plan (warning, this is a MS Word Document link) includes no call to "a new social and economic order in which workers and consumers will take responsibility for and control of production" as the Socialist Party's platform calls for - and if they ever did such a thing I'd oppose them as much (well, ok, maybe almost as much) as you would.

It's interesting, to note too, that Pelosi is getting hit from the other side as well... this article from the progressive website "Common Dreams" came out against Pelosi - because she wasn't progressive enough!

But, even though I don't think Pelosi will advocate (or even supports) many of the positions in the Socialist Party Platform, you are correct that it's something we'll have to watch for.

One more thought on the World Net Daily article... I followed the link to their "expose" on the DSA/Progressive Caucus connection, and had to laugh (just a little, though, because it's more scary than funny) at this line:

Next time you wonder why our nation is tumbling down the slippery slope toward socialism, dictatorship and repression, don't forget the active role played by this group of dedicated, professional malcontents

I'd agree that Republican control of all three branches of the government won't include any "slide" toward socialism (more like feudalism, in my opinion, but that's just me) - but in my mind, it's Bush who poses the greatest threat of "dictatorship and repression" that this nation has seen in a very long time - maybe ever. The things Bush has done to make his administration unaccountable to anybody, let alone the people, and the repressive tactics employed by Ashcroft, are the nightmare scenario conservatives (or at least, libertarians) have warned about for years. Except, they said Clinton would bring it about.

But even libertarians are waking up. Check this article opposing the Homeland Security Department by William F. Jasper, Rise of the Garrison State, on the John Birch Society's website. The blurb says "Using the pretext of responding to terrorist threats, president Bush proposed changes that, in reality, have long been planned to consolidate police-state powers at the federal level." That, and many of the other comments in the article (not all of them, to be sure) would be equally at home in any current left-wing publication! In fact, here's one from CounterPunch that says virtually the same thing.

YIKES!

And xm177e2, you are special... didn't you know that already?

114 posted on 11/11/2002 12:19:54 PM PST by bain_sidhe
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To: bain_sidhe
That would be like me quoting The New Re... uh, wait...

Hey, I like TNR.

Anyway, the point of me posting the "expose" wasn't to prove Pelosi was a socialist (I've already said I was wrong), but to point out the links between the DSA and the PC.

115 posted on 11/11/2002 2:11:56 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: bain_sidhe
Why it's such a good idea... Do you ever watch West Wing? It's the same sentiment expressed by the character played by Ron Silver (Bruno, I think his name is), who said in one episode:

Oh brother!! Enough said!!

116 posted on 11/11/2002 2:26:41 PM PST by Lady Heron
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To: All
lol, excellent thread, thanks.

~Corey
117 posted on 11/11/2002 2:31:23 PM PST by corlorde
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To: xm177e2
Bump
118 posted on 11/11/2002 2:33:24 PM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: joonbug
"Perhaps this shift left sets the stage for Hillary to come to the rescue as a "moderate democrat" who would be welcome with open arms after this far left shift?"

BINGO!

119 posted on 11/11/2002 2:48:26 PM PST by slouper
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To: xm177e2
Oh, I like TNR too, most of the time. But I know people further left than I am who have been... um, less than pleased with some of the recent articles.

And you're right about the connection between the Progressive Caucus and the DSA - it's obviously there. I was arguing a different point, I guess - that the DSA's influence isn't as great as the DSA would like to think it is. But I guess that's the way of all fringe groups trumpeting their "association" with more mainstream ones. It's a way to give themselves a sense of legitimacy, because, let's face it, socialism just isn't going to happen in this country.
120 posted on 11/11/2002 5:27:00 PM PST by bain_sidhe
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