Germans call Churchill a war criminal (HOLD MEIN BIER...YET AGAIN)

The Daily Telegraph ^ | November 19, 2002 | Kate Connolly

[jpl]

There's absolutely nothing in this world I despise more than a sore loser.

[David Hunter]

...the Loyalists which received help and backing from Stalin. I'm Catholic, and am not fond of how the Loyalists would set nuns on fire.

Good point. But not all of the anti-Franco forces were Loyalists/Communists, or were supported by the USSR. Remember the POUM which George Orwell fought alongside? They were anti-Soviet and anti-Franco, since they were anarchists. Anarchism would have been preferable to fascism or Soviet Socialism IMO, since its a more puritanical form of libertarianism. But of course the POUM were slaughtered by Franco and the NKVD, along with Spain's chances for democracy and freedom before Franco's death in '75.

[MadIvan]

Careful, POUM was in favour of anarcho-syndicalism, which was just as bad as Communism and placed as much emphasis on "class struggle".

You had the choice between the lesser of two evils in that war. Had I been Spanish, my preference would have been to leave. As an Englishman, my preference would be not to fight in that war at all.

Regards, Ivan

[Charles Martel]

Convenient lapse of memory over on the continent, eh?

The Germans should've never targeted London; it was a foolish change in tactics (though fortunate for the R.A.F.). Beyond that, the retaliation was severe and entirely appropriate.

I'm pleased that Tony Blair presented President Bush with a bust of Churchill. I believe it is an inspiration there in the Oval Office during these trying times.

[ZULU]

After reading "Enemy at the Gates", "Ghost Soldiers", seeing the recent responses of the German press, politicians ans public, and now this - we NEVER should have allowed those people to tear down the Berlin Wall.

I hope we NEVER allow the Japanese to have another military establishment

I think there is a defective gene in many Germans. It is activated when they are in an all-German environment. German-Americans seem normal and fine - look at Eisenhower and Schwartzkopf. But put them all together in one bunch and something goes kaput.

They are almost as bad as the French. Ingratitude is a worse offense than mass insanity.

[Centurion2000]

Germany "loses" the war, spent it's U.S. aid wisely, and is now set to command a European Union, of which "Great" Britain will be a subservient part.

Kinda hard to be a ruler of the EU when you've got the Americans occupying your nation backed up with several hundred nuclear weapons.

[David Hunter]

Careful, POUM was in favour of anarcho-syndicalism, which was just as bad as Communism and placed as much emphasis on "class struggle".

Alright, they didn't believe in capitalism, but they didn't believe in statism or totalitarianism either. They were really libertarian socialists. But they were still better than the NAZI backed fascists or the USSR backed loyalists, since they were democratic. But you're right, for most moderate/conservative Spanish people leaving would have been the best choice. The problem was the Spanish Civil war was just a proxy conflict between NAZI Germany and the USSR, and so no home-grown movement could have made a difference. That's why Orwell went there, to defend democracy in a country where un-democratic foreign powers were backing their political allies in order to turn Spain into their puppet.

[f.Christian]

The... turning pt!

[nathanbedford]

My observations were limited in scope to the air battle for Britain and, of course, did not apply to the whole war.

Thanks for the link, I enjoyed reading the thread.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

recognition to be given to the suffering inflicted on the German population during the strategic air campaign of 1940-45.

There is plenty of room for criticism of the conduct of nations in that period, and in the time leading up to it.

Japanese wholesale attrocities in China
Nazi bombing and murder camps
Soviet gulags and show trials
FDR conning America into fighting for Stalin.
Yes, and Bomber Harris, too.

Churchill comes out far better than the rest, but it does have to be said that Harris is a blot on his record as well. At least Churchill was trying to prevent the Cold War; FDR got really gung ho about fighting only when Hitler invaded the USSR. And intended to confer with Stalin without Churchill! Which would have brought down the Churchill government, I make no doubt.

The really bad decision was the FDR "unconditional surrender" policy, which lashed all Germany to the mast of Naziism. How much worse could restoring the status-quo-ante of the WWI Armistace have been than the bipolar Cold War? And how many lives would have been saved by a treaty restoring that status??

[Truck Wu]

Anyway folks like you seem to be the new masterrace and willing to split blood all over the world. In 2001+ US is not the saver but the offender.

Let`s hope there will be some nations who will free USA from this abyss.

[BlueLancer]

"The debate was sparked by Gunther Grass, the Nobel prize winner, in a novel fictionalising the wartime account of a passenger ship torpedoed by the Soviet navy killing thousands of Germans on board."

The sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff was a maritime disaster of the first water, but there was nothing either illegal or particularly surprising about it. It was not a hospital ship ... it was not a protected neutral. It was a ship under the control of the German military and a legitimate target. The Germans are just lucky that they surrendered before the A-bomb became an operational option for the Allies.

[jalisco555]

This great photo of Churchill has a funny history. Churchill had just finished addressing the Canadian Parliament and was walking down the hall when the photographer asked to take his picture. Churchill, annoyed, agreed but demanded he make it quick. The shot was set up in about 2 seconds and the glower was for the photographer, not Hitler. Yet, it became the most famous
Churchill photo. The photographer, whose name escapes me, recently died.

[Fiddlstix]

Bump

[metesky]

If you think Saint Jack was man of the century, you're still immature.

[ricpic]

One and only one word for Churchill: Indomitable.

[jws3sticks]

[dighton]

Churchill had just delivered his speech containing the quip “some chicken, some neck” to the Canadian Parliament on December 30 1941. He was walking into the Speaker’s Chamber, arm in arm with the Canadian prime minister Mackenzie King, when the photographer flicked on his lights. “Two minutes for one shot, and I mean two minutes for one shot,” growled the great man as he lit a cigar.

Karsh, however, did not want to photograph the Prime Minister with this already familiar prop. He held out an an ashtray, but Churchill continued to smoke. Undeterred, the photographer, muttering “forgive me, sir”, swiftly stepped forward and removed the cigar from the prime ministerial lips

“By the time I got back to my camera,” he later recalled, “he looked so belligerent he could have devoured me.” In an instant, Karsh had captured Churchill’s furious expression on film.

-- Yousuf Karsh obituary, The Telegraph.

[jws3sticks]

[xp38]

Reread my post carefully. Note the date that Winston Churchill passed away (January 24 1965)in comparison to the assassination of JFK (November 22 1963). The headline was in reference to Churchill.