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Did Tim Johnson Steal South Dakota's Senate Seat?
Sioux Falls Argus Leader ^ | 12/8/2002 | David Kranz

Posted on 12/08/2002 2:38:53 PM PST by EternalVigilance

Edited on 05/07/2004 9:08:23 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

South Dakota's protracted Senate race publicly ended more than a month ago.

But the contentious bickering that marked the yearlong campaign between Democratic Sen. Tim Johnson and Republican Rep. John Thune didn't stop the morning after Nov. 5.

A small group of Republican lawyers, suspecting that Democrats unduly influenced the election in Native American precincts such as Parmalee and Pine Ridge, have scoured Indian Country for misdeeds.


(Excerpt) Read more at argusleader.com ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Free Republic; Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: South Dakota
KEYWORDS: johnson; mindytucker; thune; ussenate; votefraud; voterfraud
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This is an example of the media pretending to care about RAT voter fraud...to cover their own butts, of course.
1 posted on 12/08/2002 2:38:54 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: EternalVigilance
Why why why is it always RAT voter fraud? I find myself wondering if Rats ever think seriously about how it's always THEIR party - caught cheating. Rarely ours. If I was a Rat, I'd switch parties just for that reason alone.

...Course I have principles.
3 posted on 12/08/2002 2:57:25 PM PST by Humidston
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To: EternalVigilance
Lots of words to say essentially this:

THE DEMOCRAT PARTY IS ENGAGED IN VOTER FRAUD.

I am so glad there is a Republican majority now.

4 posted on 12/08/2002 2:58:53 PM PST by Recovering_Democrat
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To: EternalVigilance
In this country if we ever get a fool proof voteing system the democraps will never win an election.
5 posted on 12/08/2002 3:13:31 PM PST by solo gringo
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To: *Vote Fraud
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list
6 posted on 12/08/2002 3:15:54 PM PST by Free the USA
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To: hobbes1; dubyaismypresident
The Wall Street Journal has been a critic of the Democratic Party's efforts on the reservation, including an early article written for the newspaper's Web site by John Fund. Fund, now on leave from the newspaper to write a book, was one of the speakers at the RNLA meeting in Texas attended by Lauck. The Journal revisited the South Dakota election a week after the voting in the "Review & Outlook" section of its editorial page that was critical of Thune for conceding the race without a recount. It said: "Yes, Mr. Thune thinks the election was probably stolen, but he'll have a hard time proving it, won't win in the end anyway and along the way he'll be so beat up by Tom Daschle's political machine that he'd never be able to run for statewide office again. He's only 41 years old, so better to walk than fight."

I guess i can see this, but letting Johnson get away with this galls me no end.

7 posted on 12/08/2002 3:19:59 PM PST by xsmommy
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To: EternalVigilance; TheLion; nicmarlo
It is encouraging to know that some of this stuff is going on behind the scenes and after the fact. At least I don't feel quite as much like we are left out there twisting in the wind with our concerns. Still, it seems that South Dalota is going to be a tough one to counter fraud in because of their election laws and the fact that at no time does a voter have to show an ID to either register OR to vote and we already know what happens when any attempt is made to close that loophole. The Rats start squealing like stuck pigs.
8 posted on 12/08/2002 3:20:00 PM PST by sweetliberty
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To: sweetliberty
Thanks for the ping. Just what will come out of these states that have obvious fraud, remains to be seen. Ashcroft promised to go after fraud....will he?
9 posted on 12/08/2002 3:24:43 PM PST by TheLion
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To: TheLion
Let's hope so. Let's face it; it isn't going to be so easy to conceal any more. Too many people are becoming aware of it as a real issue, and add to that FReepers making a lot of noise over the next two years and a lot more poeple are going to know about it.
10 posted on 12/08/2002 3:27:33 PM PST by sweetliberty
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To: GymneShortz
"What is or are the reasons that John Thune did not even ask for a recount or review of the laws that may have been bent and broken."

A physical might reveal Thune to be an actual eunuch.

11 posted on 12/08/2002 3:28:47 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: sweetliberty
Isn't it ironic that all the fuss made by the rats in Florida in the Bush/Gore debacle, exposed many of their dirty little tricks to public scrutiny!
12 posted on 12/08/2002 3:31:20 PM PST by TheLion
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To: xsmommy
but letting Johnson get away with this galls me no end.

yes it does suck but it was handled perfectly by thune no messy 36 day recount where win or lose your damaged politically. Just remember during those 36 days in 2000 how fired up you were to vote this year (I know I couldnt wait) and I personally think it was a big factor on nov 5th.

Nov 2004 is right around the corner and it just so happens there is another dem senator from that great state who will be ripe for the picking by mr thune
13 posted on 12/08/2002 3:32:25 PM PST by TheRedSoxWinThePennant
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To: EternalVigilance
We have been repeatedly told that Thune didn't challenge the results because he wants to run again. The hell with him. After putting his personal career about his party, he should never be allowed to run again.
14 posted on 12/08/2002 3:34:15 PM PST by Cicero
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To: TheRedSoxWinThePennant
i know you are right, but, STILL!!
15 posted on 12/08/2002 3:36:03 PM PST by xsmommy
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To: EternalVigilance
Did Tim Johnson Steal South Dakota's Senate Seat?

Is snow white?.......er yellow. Let's see, daschole is from there; what color is snow anyway?

16 posted on 12/08/2002 3:36:13 PM PST by patriot_wes
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To: EternalVigilance; sweetliberty
Jim Leach, a Rapid City lawyer for the state Democratic Party, challenged Thune to say something about the situation.. . . why won't John Thune's office answer any questions about this? Thune apparently has something to hide.

ROFL....oh boy, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.... this is rich. Thanks for the ping, sweetliberty. Thune had the election stolen; I have no doubt.....I'm very happy to see that affidavits are being collected and investigations are continuing....they will dig up more info and hear about more fraud....I'm certain of it.

17 posted on 12/08/2002 3:36:28 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: sweetliberty
behind the scenes

Interesting, too, that they held a meeting for the Repub lawyers in August......as far as showing ID for voting, we, the people, need to insist on this happening. I cannot imagine that it is unconstitutional to do so.

18 posted on 12/08/2002 3:47:25 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: GymneShortz
What is or are the reasons that John Thune did not even ask for a recount or review

A whiny loser never wins anything. Not the recount, and not the next election (algore is toast, and that's a model most people see)

The best way to address this kind of cheating is to let it pass this time, and be vigilant 2 yrs. from now. From what I understand, cheating at these reservations was a new thing. If the Dems manage to cheat at the reservations 2 years from now, the GOP deserve the loss.

19 posted on 12/08/2002 4:28:55 PM PST by speekinout
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To: EternalVigilance
The dems rarely if ever win an election on the merits.
20 posted on 12/08/2002 4:45:19 PM PST by OldFriend
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To: GymneShortz
Could it be that both sides were so hell bent that so many laws were broken that it was more prudent Not to bring it up?

No, I have no reason to suspect that any Republicans were or are involved in any sort of fraud whatsoever...none.

Republicans certainly aren't perfect, but with 99% of the GOP rank and file around this country, vote fraud is a direct attack on our form of government, and even to suggest doing it would earn you nothing but scorn and eternal political damnation.

My sense is that John's refusal to make a big public stink about the RAT fraud is based on a political calculation that to do so would finish him forever in this state. While I may not like it personally, it's hard to argue that it isn't a wise move for him personally.

Out here in the coffee shops and opn the street, the talk is about Thune running in '04, and about the RAT corruption of the process. Not a bad combination for John Thune's political viability for the future...sure beats being known as a whiny loser.

EV

21 posted on 12/08/2002 4:49:07 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Humidston
If I was a Rat, I'd switch parties just for that reason alone.

That's a mighty big IF, my friend! ;-)

22 posted on 12/08/2002 4:50:30 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Lots of words to say essentially this:

THE DEMOCRAT PARTY IS ENGAGED IN VOTER FRAUD.

No kidding!

I am so glad there is a Republican majority now.

Makes all the hard work worth it, doesn't it? :-)

23 posted on 12/08/2002 4:53:58 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: solo gringo
In this country if we ever get a fool proof voting system the democraps will never win an election.

Maybe we could seal all the tombs? LOL...

Seriously though, I totally agree with you---they would go directly onto the ashheap of history with the rest of their socialist brethren where they belong!

24 posted on 12/08/2002 4:57:36 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: xsmommy
I guess i can see this, but letting Johnson get away with this galls me no end.

Thune has been told that if he doesn't fight he's done. Janklow will take on Dachele in '04 not Thune. It is a shame as Thune's ACU ratings were pretty darn high.

25 posted on 12/08/2002 4:59:27 PM PST by NeoCaveman
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To: TheLion
Ashcroft promised to go after fraud....will he?

That's a very good question...one that deserves a straight answer, IMO. It would be nice to know if those 30 FBI agents they said they had out here turned up anything. I wouold be surprised if they didn't.

26 posted on 12/08/2002 5:00:06 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Cicero
Are you kidding? It's almost impossible to prove voter fraud unless someone confesses. Hardly likely considering the penalties. He would only have ended up damaged goods and the republican party would have been portrayed as poor losers.

HE knows and WE know there was fraud. We need to keep hunting until it can be proven and when it is, he'll be a shoo in for Daschles seat in 2004.

27 posted on 12/08/2002 5:29:32 PM PST by McGavin999
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To: Cicero
We have been repeatedly told that Thune didn't challenge the results because he wants to run again. The hell with him. After putting his personal career about his party, he should never be allowed to run again.

Actually, being a coward makes him blend in perfectly with the rest of the Republican lemmings in the Senate....

28 posted on 12/08/2002 5:34:19 PM PST by Tall_Texan
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To: EternalVigilance
In Shannon County, home to the Pine Ridge reservation, 92 percent of the votes were for Johnson.

I find this number difficult to believe, although my argument is ancedotal. I had occasion to meet a college friend (late 50s, early 60s, University of Nebraska) here in east central Illinois some time in the 80s, who at that time was Tribal President of the Ogala Sioux (Pine Ridge). Not long after that, our family in its travels stopped by the reservation. It was Sunday, but we found the friend, he was no longer Tribal President. It was a two year term. Said friend gave me a copy of a nice pamphlet which contained the 20th century history of his people. In it was a list of Tribal Presidents since they started to have those which was in the 30s or before. There was only one that had served more than one two year term. It seems strange that these independent people, who have no compunction to throw the rascal out, if it is one of their own, would vote 92% for a man of the party who have continuously swindled the Native Americans out of any little wealth to which they may hold title. Maybe they have all turned to sheep.


29 posted on 12/08/2002 5:40:38 PM PST by Western Phil
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To: dubyaismypresident
Thune has been told that if he doesn't fight he's done. Janklow will take on Dachele in '04 not Thune.

Told that by whom? Got a source? This South Dakotan would like to know where that is coming from.

It would be highly unusual for a new Congressman to give up his seat after only two years to run for the Senate.

30 posted on 12/08/2002 5:51:23 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Cicero
The great thing about the Republican Party under Bush II is that it has the strategic, and not just tactical, vision that they've long lacked. One could challenge the results, but to what end? Most of the fraud was unearthed prior to the election and never put into effect. That which remained is largely unprovable and COMPLETELY unquantifiable. In short, without hard evidence, there's no compelling legal case to be made and, should Thune pursue it, he'll come off like a whiney crybaby.

What's clear from the above is that Republicans plan to prosecute those who can be prosecuted, keep Dem voter fraud in the news for the next two years, and tar Daschle with it good in 2004. Voters hate whiners, but will often give good men a second chance if they bear up well under adversity. Look to Jeb Bush, Norm Coleman, John Kline, and Jim Talent for recent examples. In the long run the Johnson/Thune race may be a Pyrrhic Victory for Daschle -- he now has stiff competition for 2004 if he decides to chance another run.

31 posted on 12/08/2002 5:56:09 PM PST by Reverend Bob
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To: DakotaGator; SoDak; ~EagleNebula~; floriduh voter; The Shrew; Twig; JayWolfe; Registered; ...
Ping!
32 posted on 12/08/2002 5:57:32 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Reverend Bob
What's clear from the above is that Republicans plan to prosecute those who can be prosecuted, keep Dem voter fraud in the news for the next two years, and tar Daschle with it good in 2004. Voters hate whiners, but will often give good men a second chance if they bear up well under adversity. Look to Jeb Bush, Norm Coleman, John Kline, and Jim Talent for recent examples. In the long run the Johnson/Thune race may be a Pyrrhic Victory for Daschle -- he now has stiff competition for 2004 if he decides to chance another run.

Very well said---and I think you may well be right.

Forgive my ignorance, but who is John Kline, though?

33 posted on 12/08/2002 6:00:40 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: nicmarlo
ROFL....oh boy, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.... this is rich. Thanks for the ping, sweetliberty. Thune had the election stolen; I have no doubt.....I'm very happy to see that affidavits are being collected and investigations are continuing....they will dig up more info and hear about more fraud....I'm certain of it.

As my friend Dakota Gator said while back, 'it's one thing to smell the skunks, but you have to be able to see 'em before you can kill 'em'! ;-)


34 posted on 12/08/2002 6:08:51 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: EternalVigilance
"Did Tim Johnson Steal South Dakota's Senate Seat?"

Does a bear "do two" in the woods. Is the Pope Polish? O.K., one more clue....is Tim Johnson a "D"?

35 posted on 12/08/2002 7:03:13 PM PST by S.O.S121.500
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To: S.O.S121.500
O.K., one more clue....is Tim Johnson a "D"?

I know, I know!...some things almost go without saying...

You win the prize for best answer yet! ;-)

36 posted on 12/08/2002 7:07:41 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: EternalVigilance
Told that by whom? Got a source? This South Dakotan would like to know where that is coming from.
It would be highly unusual for a new Congressman to give up his seat after only two years to run for the Senate.

It's just a rumor but allegedly it came from two-term governor Janklow himslef. And I am not from South Dakotan, and I am a big Thune fan.

37 posted on 12/08/2002 7:24:50 PM PST by NeoCaveman
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To: EternalVigilance
John Kline challenged Bill Luther in the Minnesota 6th District two elections running, losing by very narrow margins each time. This year, after redistricting, he went up against Luther again in the redrawn 2nd and won handily, taking about 55% of the vote. He's now one of our incoming Freshmen Republicans in the House.
38 posted on 12/08/2002 7:35:09 PM PST by Reverend Bob
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To: dubyaismypresident
It's possible...Janklow is a strange bird at times, and hardly conventional in his thinking...so who knows. But at this point, I would take it as an unsubstantiated rumor.

Janklow is pretty buddy-buddy with Daschle...that's been part of the problem. When Republican leaders give the signal to rank and file party members that it's ok to pal around with top RATS like little Tommy, that's part of the reason you end up with 20 or 30 thousand Republicans voting for a Johnson, IMO.

At this point, I'm very much unconvinced that either one of them can beat Daschle.
39 posted on 12/08/2002 7:40:54 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: EternalVigilance
At this point, I'm very much unconvinced that either one of them can beat Daschle.

Well 20K R votes, who voted R for governor and R for congress voted for Johnson, just to keep Daschle in the majority, and to keep the PORK coming. Now that Daschle is not majority I, and you, should smell blood.

Unsunstantiated rumor (re: Janklow)....perhaps, but you heard it here first.

40 posted on 12/08/2002 7:44:41 PM PST by NeoCaveman
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To: Reverend Bob
Excellent!

Thanks for enlightening me.

Congressman Kline needs to link up with another freshman...Steve King of IA 5, who is in the not-too-distant future going to be a conservative powerhouse...he has great legislative skills, and is a tremendous strategist for our cause.

Also, he needs to make friends with Todd Tiahrt of Kansas, who is an up-and-coming star for conservatives in the House.
41 posted on 12/08/2002 7:45:24 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: dubyaismypresident
Unsubstantiated rumor (re: Janklow)....perhaps, but you heard it here first.

Sounds like you have pretty good sources...and it sounds like Janklow. Guess we'll see.

42 posted on 12/08/2002 7:58:07 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: EternalVigilance
I'd rather see Thune, I was upset by his loss...then again I was calling that as the one and only "too close to call." Called all the other ones perfect except Colorado, darn Zogby.
43 posted on 12/08/2002 8:00:20 PM PST by NeoCaveman
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To: EternalVigilance
Thanks for the ping, EV. I stopped reading the Argus Liar a few months ago when my doc said it was bad for my blood pressure. Kranz is such a hack. He's a hack's hack. Randall Beck makes my skin crawl.
44 posted on 12/08/2002 10:48:33 PM PST by SoDak
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To: SoDak
So what is your take on where we stand going into '04 against Daschle?

I have to ask myself why Thune can possibly beat Daschle if he couldn't even beat Daschle's ventriloqist dummy Johnson....know what I mean?
45 posted on 12/08/2002 11:24:40 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: EternalVigilance
Ironically, I think Daschle will be easier to beat than Johnson. Johnson had the luxury of being low-key, and operating under the radar. Johnson's only headlines in the last 6 years were the ones announcing his latest pork project. Daschle has to operate on the national stage, and often has to take stands again't his constituency. In the past, it was easier for he, and someone like, say, McGovern to do that, because people had their information spoon fed by the local media. I don't think it's so anymore. He's an campaign ad man's dream. And you know what? He knows this. This is why he's been so bitter. He knows he's going to have to fight for his life if he runs again. And after the last election, the SDGOP is gonna be screaming for vengeance. My opnion? He retires...
46 posted on 12/09/2002 1:49:33 AM PST by SoDak
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To: EternalVigilance
'it's one thing to smell the skunks, but you have to be able to see 'em before you can kill 'em'

Yes, and maybe we can "skunk 'em out," too! : )

47 posted on 12/09/2002 4:17:55 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: SoDak
That is a very interesting take, and is hard to argue with...Daschle definitely will find himself vulnerable because of his leadership role at the head of the corrupt socialist RAT party.

ButI always find it hard to visualize any extreme partisan like Daschle leaving willingly...I tend to take it for granted they won't leave power behind wothout going feet-first or kicking and screaming.
48 posted on 12/09/2002 7:38:16 AM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Reverend Bob
Excellent points. Too many conservatives are after an instant "pound of flesh" rather than remembering that "Revenge is a dish best served cold!"
49 posted on 12/09/2002 7:51:07 AM PST by Redleg Duke
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To: EternalVigilance
Did Tim Johnson Steal South Dakota's Senate Seat?

The RATS are specialists in voter fraud...it's their specialty...

50 posted on 12/09/2002 8:06:02 AM PST by KLT
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