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Why men don't like church: testosterone
The Ottawa Citizen ^ | Sunday, December 22, 2002 | Emanuella Grinberg

Posted on 12/22/2002 4:52:42 PM PST by freeforall

Why men don't like church: testosterone Skipping services typical of engaging in 'short-sighted' risks

Emanuella Grinberg The Ottawa Citizen

Sunday, December 22, 2002

The risk-taking impulse that makes more men than women commit crimes is also the reason men are more likely not to be religious, says a sociologist.

"It seems that not being religious is a form of risk-taking, consistent with other patterns of short-sighted behaviour in men," said Rodney Stark, a professor of sociology and comparative religion at the University of Washington, whose study will be published in The Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion.

"Every minister knows it's harder to get the guys to church than the women," he said. "We ought to be asking why this is."

Biological differences between men and women mean that men are more likely to have an "underdeveloped ability to inhibit their impulses," he said. "Especially those involving immediately gratification and thrills."

Mr. Stark based his conclusions on World Values Surveys, a poll of residents in 57 countries, with about 1,000 respondents in each country, which included the U.S., most European countries, Mexico, Brazil, Japan, Turkey, China and India. The results showed that there were sex differences everywhere, even in religions that are very male-centred, such as Orthodox Judaism.

Mr. Stark and fellow sociologist Alan Miller published another paper based on whether gender socialization or differences in social power played a role in religiousness. Studies have shown that career women are just as religious as housewives, he said.

Mr. Stark isn't satisfied with the notion that women are socialized to be more nurturing and have more time for worship than men. For him, it is a matter of gender that makes men less religious, but not a matter of the socialization of genders, said Mr. Stark.

"It used to be said that women were socialized to raise the kids and take care of the home, but when you compare a career woman to a housewife, you see that both are still a heck of a lot more religious than any man."

He says that if not a product of socialization, low rates of male religiousness can be attributed to physiology, much like higher instances of crime among men compared with women.

"There are big gender differences among Christians, Orthodox Jews and Muslims, but in each case, more women are going to more services and saying they adhere to religious mores than men. If it were a matter of socialization, it would show up in the results," he said.

Mr. Stark also said his findings are consistent with the beliefs of criminologists across North America who find aggression more prevalent in men than women.

"High testosterone levels have been proven to make men more likely to commit crimes. The tendency in men toward risky behaviour keeps turning up even where socialization is different, and so does crime and delinquency."

© Copyright 2002 The Ottawa Citizen


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To: freeforall
In my opinion, being religious in today's society is a bigger risk than not being religious. How many Judge Roy Moores are out there?
101 posted on 12/23/2002 7:12:50 AM PST by tutstar
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To: MHT; Desdemona; BlackElk; maryz; Catholicguy; TotusTuus
In addition to which, you can notice a "feminization" of the music and 'decorative' arts now au courant in many Catholic churches. "Group hug" music is simply not appealing to men, nor are burlap wallhangings with oddly-affixed felt shapes.

Masculinity is definitely "out" these days.
102 posted on 12/23/2002 7:24:49 AM PST by ninenot
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To: ninenot
Masculinity is definitely "out" these days.

Ummmm,...no.

Masculinity is just fine.
103 posted on 12/23/2002 7:27:29 AM PST by Desdemona
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To: nickcarraway
ping
104 posted on 12/23/2002 7:27:46 AM PST by Desdemona
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To: Eagle Eye
as well as man enough to hold the truth of God's work above all else.

AND Man enough to die for others.

This example of self-sacrifice ought to inspire the entire USMC.

105 posted on 12/23/2002 7:42:09 AM PST by ninenot
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To: jlogajan
Well, the Bible is pretty clear on that -- hellsville for the little children

Well, your friends are either wholly mis-informed or are holding back: there's a Gospel passage in which Christ states UNEQUIVOCALLY "unless you are like one of these [little children] you shall NOT enter the Kingdom."

OTOH, maybe you don't really want to understand religion, eh?

106 posted on 12/23/2002 7:45:42 AM PST by ninenot
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To: jlogajan
Thanks for proving what I just said.

You can't live in that hermetically-sealed, logic-proof enclosure forever.

You silly religionists, you make me laugh with your goofy beliefs.

I don't make things up. And if this makes you laugh, better get it in while you can.

107 posted on 12/23/2002 7:49:17 AM PST by thulldud
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To: Desdemona
Well--I was referencing the "community experience", and you might not be.

Most of the St.Louis Jesuit crap is quite feminine (and you and I both know why--some of those poor creatures were from Milwaukee.) It is not metrically-enough driven to have any masculinity component to speak of (and a parallel from the "good old days" is 'Mother, Dear, O Pray for Me.'

Drivel.

Compare "Oh, God, Our Help in Ages Past," or even "A Mighty Fortress" or the Old Hundredth. While one may argue that these items are a bit too masculine, they are the diametric opposite of "Eagles Wings."

BTW: Gregorian Chant is the solution. Has no over-riding 'masculine' nor 'feminine' quality--actually balanced.
108 posted on 12/23/2002 7:56:51 AM PST by ninenot
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To: ninenot
Well--I was referencing the "community experience", and you might not be.

Annoying, isn't it?

The St. Louis Jesuits (most now have left the society, except Foley and Dan Schutte) were (and still are) musically clueless. Too much Peter, Paul and Mary influence.

Chant works for all occations. There we agree.
109 posted on 12/23/2002 8:00:29 AM PST by Desdemona
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To: MHT
and it often takes supreme concentration to get through the often repetitious ritual to the intellectual meat...

At one time, prayer services in a local church I know and love were serious sessions of "back-seat driving" the universe. The prayers ranged around the world, and embraced real-world issues near to home. When praying for "kings and those in authority," folks would start out at the most important area of leadership -- fathers and husbands in the church -- and work their way down to the least important, the most trivial -- President Bush.

Alas, a new philosophy of prayer began directing these events, and the "signal to noise ratio" degraded below 1. There was a striking decline in the attention invested in the world around us, and a sickening hyptertrophy of effeminate "let's see how spiritual I can make myself feel" emotional acrobatics.

I'm praying more in private, now.

110 posted on 12/23/2002 8:01:16 AM PST by TomSmedley
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To: ninenot
<> Fortunately, I am in a healthy Parish. Yesterday, during the sermon, the Pastor reminded MEN of their DUTY to be the Spiritual Leaders of their family and that if the MEN did not do their job - there would be social chaos because one can't rely on the Priest, Sister, School Church to do the work that men are created for. The Church is in the home (as well as the Local Parish) and when folks bitch about the state of the Church, they seldom, if ever, look in the mirror as the source of the problem.

IMO, many are "bored" at Mass because they have NO idea what the Mass is about. Those who are "bored" at Mass reveal their ignorance of what the Mass is; and there is blame aplenty for that condition<>

111 posted on 12/23/2002 8:01:32 AM PST by Catholicguy
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To: MHT
A great book on Catholicism, Goodbye, Good Men:

See also a great book on the issue by a catholic writer, Leon Podle's tome on the feminization of Chrisianity.

112 posted on 12/23/2002 8:03:02 AM PST by TomSmedley
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To: Argh
****Huh! I thought it was because on Sunday the NFL conflicts with church in the western part of the country. (lame joke, I know)*****

I've always wondered about that....i've always lived in eastern time zone so I could go to church in morning and get home in time for footballl games!

113 posted on 12/23/2002 8:05:48 AM PST by anncoulteriscool
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To: freeforall
"It seems that not being religious is a form of risk-taking, consistent with other patterns of short-sighted behaviour in men," said Rodney Stark..."

'Mr.' Stark obviously must not have the xperience of being a man...

114 posted on 12/23/2002 8:06:20 AM PST by Mr. K
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To: jlogajan
I asked them if a non-beliver, a baby raised in some non-Christian country, for instance, would get to heaven, or spend eternity in hell. Well, the Bible is pretty clear on that -- hellsville for the little children -- tough luck on them.

You apparently don't know the Bible or you would't have made such a broad and incorrect statement. It is clear about the matter and children will not be held accountable for their sins as they cannot fully conceive of right and wrong. God is infinitely wise, just, and compassionate. Or perhaps that man is wiser and more compassionate in this matter?. Those raised without the Gospel will be held accountable according to natural law; i.e. that God's greatness is everywhere and there are things that are inherently wrong.

And the Bible also teaches that guaranteed salvation is not and should not be used as a "get out of jail free card". It is not a license to sin, it is a pardon FROM sin. Salvation doesn't make you perfect, only forgiven. Those who think that they can attain salvation without a change in heart and actions are in for a rude awakening.

BTW, I have no desire to "grab the hot coals and try to burn out the eyes" of non-believers. Well, perhaps with the exception of the ACLU.

115 posted on 12/23/2002 8:07:31 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants
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To: Blood of Tyrants
It is clear about the matter and children will not be held accountable for their sins as they cannot fully conceive of right and wrong.

That would be a more rational position -- unfortunately it isn't what the Bible says. Anyhow, it wasn't just children I was referring to, but children who also grow up to be adults but never hear of Jesus are still sent to that great dumpster of eternal fire. The Bible says that Jesus said the only way to heaven is through a belief in him. Since these "children come adults" never have the requiste belief, the outcome is clear. Hell.

116 posted on 12/23/2002 8:31:23 AM PST by jlogajan
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Comment #117 Removed by Moderator

To: jlogajan
The Bible says that Jesus said the only way to heaven is through a belief in him.

No, it says that the only way to heaven is through him. The "a belief in" part is something added by some Protestant evangelicals. (And no, "faith" is not identical to "a belief in," anymore than being faithful to your wife means believing she exists and that she married you.)

God saves. Man does not save. Man's belief in God does not save. God saves. He can save a little child who dies in a non-Christian environment never having known about Jesus, if he so desires. It's not for us to set limits on his grace and mercy.

It's really none of our business what God does or did with people who unavoidably die without hearing the Gospel. It is our business to preach the Gospel to those we can reach, and to concern ourselves with their salvation, and in particular, with the salvation of the person we see in the mirror.

118 posted on 12/23/2002 8:47:22 AM PST by Campion
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To: Campion
It's really none of our business what God does or did with people who unavoidably die without hearing the Gospel. It is our business to preach the Gospel to those we can reach

That would seem a cruel pursuit, if through ignorance they were guaranteed entry into heaven, and thus by your "evangelism" you introduce to them "choice" and therefore the threat of hell.

119 posted on 12/23/2002 8:54:07 AM PST by jlogajan
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To: Capriole
While I agree with you that knowing God requires self-sacrifice and self-discipline, I think that your information about why some churches are growing and some are dying is instructive. Most 21st-century people probably would not enjoy most 17th-century activities including religious services that required sitting a better part of the day, often in complete silence. Similarly, people of today are often more in touch with their spiritual selves through contemporary music, etc., and these mega-churches are using brilliant marketing to get Americans back into the pews. Church as an activity competes in ways it did not a century ago (i.e., ball games, travel and work commitments, shared custody, etc.) as well as with itself on television and radio.

However, whether or not people do or do not go to church on Sunday, I have come to the conclusion that, much like keeping the Christmas spirit the whole year through, it's often better to keep the faith going the whole week through. I would rather see a man pray about how life is going to work out for the guy he's about to fire than be in a church parking lot where basic rules of civility, muchless Christianity, have been forgotten. And because so many churches seem to preach about anything but the Bible (fund-raisers, schools budgets, political stands, etc.), it's often better to be engaged in reading the Bible in daily private quiet prayer time than enduring temporal rhetoric and calling it "worship".

120 posted on 12/23/2002 10:51:13 AM PST by MHT
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