'Aztlan': A Warped Vision Of History

Sierra Times ^ | 12-30-02 | Jack Ward

[pabianice]

Either we'll take control of our borders or the US will end.

[The Duke]

I don't blame Mexico for taking everything we're willing to give them - and apparently we're willing to give them quite a bit.

(I do, however, blame those in America who are doing the "giving".)

[Tijeras_Slim]

The agitators call themselves the "Bronze People" and claim Aztlan is theirs.

And that's exactly the age we'll end up in if this happens.

[Restorer]

Ahem.

If prior occupancy establishes title, surely the land belongs to the descendants of the various Indian tribes, not to those of the Spanish/Mexican invaders.

[Pukka Puck]

It is sick that we employee such agitators in our state funded universities.

[RLK]

Unfortunately, some embittered intellectuals (on both sides of the border) have advocated that most of the southwest US belongs to Mexico.

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The area originally belonged to nobody. Hernando Cortez claimed an entire area including what is now Mexico and land nearly to Canada for Spain without ever seeing most of it or even knowing where it was. In the early 1800s the people of Mexico refused to accept Cortez's claims and expelled the Spanish. By result of inheritance of Cortez's claims, Mexico assumed ownership of nearly half of What is now the Western United States. Americans didn't accept Cortez's claims either and freed itself from Mexico.

[End The Hypocrisy]

Fewer than 500,000 inhabitants occupied what's now Aztlan, by the way. Admittedly though, we'd not tolerate someone's taking over Alaska (which has a similarly small population) but the difference is that we can DEFEND the territory from invasion.

[End The Hypocrisy]

The Aztecs probably don't have much of a claim as they nabbed Mexico from other indigenous tribes which had already declined, such as the Mayans, Toltecs and Teotihuacanis (all supposedly preceded by the Olmecs). It's noteworthy how Mexican historians fizzle when one mentions this in response to their claims that they still own Aztlan. Mexico knows nothing other than conquests.

[BlackElk]

Ummmmm, the "Spanish/Mexcan invaders" as you put it ARE largely of Indian blood, but don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasies. If those coming in were pure-blooded Spaniards, a lot of your buds on this issue would not be half as concerned. "Atzlan" is a useful fantasy for leftist scum in professorial positions and for the "Racist-American community" (a small slice of our fellow citizens) and for certain portions of the "Gullible-American" community who want to slam the borders shut at any cost to ensure an America which "looks like them" but the immigration will continue and you know it will continue. The USA is simply a far better place to live and to give a family a future than is Mexico, which, until Fox's election was ruled for 70+ years by a gang of communist cutthroats and murderers and election fixers known as the Institutional Revolutionary Party.

Unlike "Atzlan", that is no fantasy. We (the US) are keeping California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas (they'll NEVER take Texas!) and all other territory aquired from Mexico BUT we are expanding the rich tapestry of the American people by adding a healthy influx from South of the Border of folks more likely than those at La Jolla, CA, or Darien, CT, to be socially conservative. When Roe vs. Wade is gone, check with the rest of us again. Until then, progress in that direction will continue apace. This will also dash the hopes of the more fashionable for gay marriages and whatnot. Tooooooooooo bad!

[BlackElk]

If this is the worst problem with taxpayer-funded university and college idiocy in this day and age, you need a time out to diversify your concerns. How about Marxism? "Diversity education?" Political Correctness? Outright persecution of any conservative ideas whatsoever? Anti-Semitism? Mandatory readings of the Koran? Etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

[Restorer]

the "Spanish/Mexcan invaders" as you put it ARE largely of Indian blood, but don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasies.

Most of those who originally conquered their way up into what is now the American SW, certainly their leaders, were of pure Spanish blood.

I used to live in northern NM, and (at least at the time) one of the best ways to get your clock cleaned was to refer to as "Mexican" one of the Hispanic locals who had been living in the area for centuries. They were "Spanish", and don't you forget it!

I have no idea if this distinction still remains in force in the area.

BTW, I have no fantasies about this. I just think it odd that a group would claim title to an area based on a conquest in the 1600s while denying all validity to a conquest in the 1800s.

Are titles based on conquest valid or not? If not, how does the earlier conquest confer title? If conquest does confer title, why would the later conquest not be as valid as the earlier one?

Of course, if you go back far enough, ALL titles are based on conquest.

[harpseal]

Miguel Perez of Cal State-Northridge's MEChA chapter said, "The ultimate ideology is the liberation of Aztlan. Communism would be closest [to it]. Once Aztlan is established, ethnic cleansing would commence: Non-Chicanos would have to be expelled … opposition groups would be quashed because you have to keep power." It sounds like the advocates of Aztlan preach the same philosophy advocated by Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda buddies.

This is a clear and concise statement of the Nazi Party proram in the late 1930's and early 1940's. In a way it is kind of nice to have a group of these slimeballs actually admitting to their program.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[Porterville]

Aztecs were butchers

[Restorer]

The Aztecs probably don't have much of a claim as they nabbed Mexico from other indigenous tribes which had already declined, such as the Mayans, Toltecs and Teotihuacanis (all supposedly preceded by the Olmecs).

True. Also, the Aztecs did not control anything close to even all of what is now Mexico. Most of the areas they did control were not a true empire, but were rather in the nature of tributary independent states. Much as most of eastern and southeastern Asia was to China for many centuries.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Lest we forget the Treaty of Guadelupe HIdalgo, Mexico gave up ANY territorial claim to the area the US wanted in exchange for a huge ammount of GOLD. Mexico accepted the offer.
The US then purchased another smaller section from Mexico called the Gadsen Purchase(Probably misspelled).
Mexico has NO claim to any land north of the Rio Grande or the western boundary line between Az, Cal, and Mexico.

[RLK]

Fewer than 500,000 inhabitants occupied what's now Aztlan, by the way.

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Most of the area was uninhabitable. Before Siegel developed Las Vegas, the population there was something like 25. There was a natural desert barrier between Southern Mexico and what is now the U. S. which prohibited movement of people into so-called Aztlan. If you get a map of Mexico today you will see entire areas the size of Rhode Island in the Northern half of the country in which there are still no roads because there are no cities nor anything else there. The areas are something like an old Clint Eastwood movie where he rides his horse into a place where there are 15 people, 45 chickens, and two goats.

[Sparta]

If we don't close the borders and kick these illegals out, we'll be facing an armed terrorist movement within a decade. The resulting Civil War will probably end the Republic and may be even the United States as a whole.

[txhurl]

OK. Here's what we do. Everybody living in the proposed 'Aztlan' belt go out and get yourself four Mexicans. Put 'em down in a tornado shelter or up in the attic, feed 'em well until they they cough up next-of-kin back in Mexico.

Then we do a sort of reverse underground railroad run with our chicken trucks, take 'em back and show 'em that while they were killing themselves masoning and landscaping here, NAFTA has made kingpins of their homeys back in the homeland.

We may have to 'sponsor' two families/yr travel, but I'm telling you this will work.

[PUGACHEV]

I have a better idea: rather than cede the Southwest U.S. to Mexico, why don't we offer the Northern tier of Mexican provinces admission to the U.S. as states. Offer to hold a plebicite and see, if given the chance, whether more Mexicans want to become part of el Norte instead of the other way around.