'Aztlan': A Warped Vision Of History

Sierra Times ^ | 12-30-02 | Jack Ward

[BlackElk]

You can bet that the groups titillating the gullible- American community with yak about Atzlan are not pure Spaniards. See the photo posted on this thread.

The way that Spanish law worked during its colonial period contradicts your Spanish friends and they probably know it. Queen Isabella of Spain was a green-eyed, red-haired Castilian of Celtic ancestry. If her brother moved to Mexico and married in Mexico, whether he married an unrelated lady as green-eyed, red-haired and Celtic/Castilian as his sister and brought in from Spain for the occasion or married Montezuma's daughter, both he and his wife became Mexican in nationality and ONLY Mexican by that marriage in Mexico.

Whether by revolution (Texas), or conquest, or purchase, the US ownership of each and every state in question is complete as any "Atzlan" Liberation Front will find out in short order to its collective detriment with extreme prejudice if they would like to contest the question.

[Sparta]

Took my comments out of context. I was merely pointing out that the Mexicans were populists (socially conservative, economically liberal) which is nearly identical to many fascist leaders beliefs. I'm from Louisiana where we actually elect these populist losers to state office. Also, Communists are athiests. Most Mexican immigrants, illegal and legal, are devout Catholics which knocks them out of the Communist category. Which leads most fascist and communist governments to blend as one is control of a person's money, the presence of a police state, and the overall control by a person or group of unelected and unaccountable people. Example: Red China.

As for the Aztlan reconquest, I don't know if it will succeed or not, but if we don't seal the borders and take other measures to assimilate the immigrants already here, we'll have much increased tension which may lead to Civil War. Once the shots are fired in that Civil War, who knows.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

That webmaster logo on their web site looks a lot like the old FRITO BANDITO!
Oh, I'm showing my age!

[Sparta]

. In the future it is possible that the difference between Communists in power - Marxist-Leninists - and fascists will be considered unimportant. A new category - Classic 20th century Dictatorship - may be used instead. Both types of dictatorship had secret police and prison camps, prevented free elections, controlled the press, had no respect for law. Both were totalitarian . The only difference was in the freedom given to the aristocracy and owners of industry by the fascists; whereas the communists tended to nationalize industry and land. Nazis tended to run industry better, but used slave labor (so did Stalin), which in the long run would produce the same results as the Communists - shoddy goods. There is a historians' dispute about whether Hitler was knowingly imitating Stalin in his methods, that is whether Stalin's role was to enlarge the scope of what a nasty dictatorship could do. This is something which can't be proved. The danger is that neo-fascists may use such an argument to pretend that Hitler was not responsible for his actions: "Stalin made me do it!"

___________________________________________________________

An interesting comparison between the two.

http://www.angelfire.com/mac/egmatthews/worldinfo/glossary/fascist.html

The website I got this from.

I'll back with some more.

[Sparta]

Another thing that may be of interest to you.

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/debates/history.html

[Restorer]

I cannot disagree with you.

I just think it really odd that such a purportedly leftist group uses the old blood and soil rationales of fascism.

[Porterville]

Yep, the Aztecs enslaved their prisoners in cages and fattened them up for sacrifice. A few years before Columbus they had a several year celebration where they sacrificed several 10's of thousands of local tribes men. When Cortez arrived tribes along the coast of Veracruz and the Talascan regions joined his meager group of 500 soldiers and conquered an evil empire. Before the march inland to Tenochtitlan he burnt the ships so none of the Spanish soldiers could flee. In for a penny in for a pound. As a Hispanic I am insulted by these blood thirsty, Latin neo-fascist who stand up for the Aztecs, it is equivalent to standing up for the Nazis.

[dennisw]

 

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[RLK]

For up to 20 points of extra credit, explain rationally why this Atzlan delusion has the remotest chance of becoming a governing and ethnic cleansing reality in the states formerly claimed by Mexico.

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The idea is not to bring the states in question under solitary Mexican rule. The idea is to make them de facto Mexican states while not relinquishing access to U. S. Federal programs. Given the political clout by the population of the states and the access to federal entitlements the U. S. will finance an invasion here and support of Mexico below the border until the two countries are merged with the approval of Bush and Fox.

[Kenny Bunk]

After the Mexican War, General Winfield Scott was offered the Presidency of Mexico, with the reported agenda of those Mexicans who offered him the post, of creating a Mexican/American Federation, essentially adding the States of Mexico to the US.

That sentiment isn't all that rare in Mexico. For example, Baja California was always so rebellious that it was not even granted Mexican statehood until the 1980's (as two Mexican States: Baja Norte and Sur) The usual main agenda of the Baja Rebels? Union with California and the US!

In my CA days, I had many an a debate with prospective residents of their dreamed concept of Aztlan. My argument always was that if, "Mexicans had held on to their Northern Provinces, today those states would be in the same state of acute lawlessness, poverty, disorganization, and underdevelopment as the other states of Northern Mexico."

The long range conjectures are fascinating. Make no mistake about it, Mexicans of the Fox team definitely see Mexico returning to the world stage in 100 years with the return of the Territories. Other, apparently less megalomaniac Mexicans have not given up the idea of Federation with the US.

The biggest handicaps facing individual Americans is, imho, an incredible ignorance of the world, based on cultural and historical isolation and an ever-worsening educational system. Officially we are players on the world stage. Man for man in the small towns, we are getting to be a seriously dumbed-down bunch of Clymers who don't know what is in the alley behind Main Street, never mind the history of this country or any other.

This is why Republican leadership is content to leave this the racial issue of the truly stupid, rather than address the policies of a foreign government which are at the very least, not designed with our best interests in mind.

What is in the alley behind Main Street in Everytown, USA? Large numbers of illegally present Mexicans living 15 to an apartment, sending money home, and working their behinds off to survive ... and probably unbeknownest to them, executing major Mexican Government Policy.

Ther Mexican Government's major challenge is to survive without a revolution. Their major technique in working toward this goal is shipping as many campesinos as they can North by fair means and mostly foul. That way, the campesinos are on our payroll, send $Billions home, and most important of all, are not bloody likely to riot in the streets of Guadalajara when they are living in Wichita Falls and have to shape up at the meat-packing plant at 7:00 AM the next morning.

There are many historical antecedents. When the Brits cleared the Highlands, they sent Scotsmen fleeing around the world so they wouldn't be in the way of the sheep. The difference is numbers and style. The Scotsmen numbered a few hundred thousand and had to be smart enough to finesse a 4-month sea voyage across 3500 miles of Atlantic Ocean. The Mexicans have easily another 20 Million campesinos ready to ramble, with more in the wings every day, and all they have to be is smart and strong enough to walk North.

Attention: GWB, we do not have to co-operate.

[RLK]

Fox and Mexico have a serious problem. Mexico is overpopulated with no industry or other capacity to support its population. Neither does it have an ethos or lack of corruption. Fox needs to send 2,500,000 North each year to maintain the present overcrowded squalid condition in Mexico. He also needs to confiscate portions of American industry, which he will do by exporting people and forcing them into industry through affirmative action.

[Tailgunner Joe]

bump

[Republic of Texas]

" You are delusional. These "socially conservative" invaders are going to vote Democrat; they are going to vote themselves a handout, just like everyone else. They aren't going to waste time trying to repeal Roe v. Wade or fight gay marriages. They are here for the great American gravy train, and for no other reason. Their presence here will push American politics further to the left, and will destabilize our political system for generations to come, assuming it survives at all. "

Absolutely correct. When there are more people voting to give themselves benefits than there are paying for the benefits, we are doomed. Right now it's at about 48%. Add another 2-3% to that, and this country, as we know it, is history.

[Republic of Texas]

All your land are belong to us.

[xm177e2]

Descendents of the Aztecs claiming Aztlan because they happened to pass through on the way to their promised land in Mexico City would be like the Jews claiming all of the Sinai because they wandered through there on their way to Israel.

[Cindy]

GOOGLE Search Term: "AZTLAN"
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22AZTLAN%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&filter=0

FREEREPUBLIC.com - Search Term: "AZTLAN"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/search?m=any&o=time&s=AZTLAN

[Travis McGee]

WHICH

of the various indian tribes? Continue peeling the onion, we shall discover that tribe has conquered and displaced tribe for millenia.

Land belongs to those who can and will fight to claim it as their own.

If we don't fight for it, we shall lose it, and deserve to lose it.

[Restorer]

If we don't fight for it, we shall lose it, and deserve to lose it.

Agreed. I was commenting on the irrationality of their claim, not stating that I thought the Indians still "owned" America.