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America's fake identity crisis (Mark Steyn)
National Post ^ | January 6th, 2003 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 01/06/2003 8:33:03 AM PST by Sabertooth

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To: Dialup Llama

So long as we think some fake IDs, such as the one at right that President Bush's daughter Barbara was caught using, are ok (see FR threads on how "everyone does it"), we are going to have illegals and criminals getting fake IDs.

Until we take all fake documents seriously, we will continue to have problems with illegals and criminals.

You cannot have one policy for the underage drinkers and another for the illegals and criminals, and expect that it can be maintained.

21 posted on 01/06/2003 10:06:53 AM PST by berserker
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To: Sabertooth
Millions of Americans have fake ID. To name one example, Jenna Bush.

LOL!

But generally speaking a good rule of thumb is this: where no formal verification of identity is remotely necessary, you'll be asked for a ton of it; where it might conceivably be useful, you'll breeze through. If they ever do push through this mandatory Federal Identity Card, you can bet you'll be required to produce it if you want to enrol your three-year old in the Thomas The Tank Engine Junior Engineers' Club at your neighbourhood toy store, entitling you to 5% off your tenth purchase of Thomas-related items. But you'll never be asked for it if you want a baggage-screening job on Air Force One, and, even if you are, you'll be able to buy one for 30 bucks from a guy in a parking lot.

More painful truth. But anybody who objects gets the usual "Agggh we're at war!" and so on. Never mind that this nonsense won't make us any safer--the sheeple will feel safer.

22 posted on 01/06/2003 10:12:42 AM PST by alpowolf
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To: alwaysconservative
You say that supporting Tancredo will enable another disastrous Democrat in the WH. I say that we presently have a disastrous RINO in the WH. George Bush has proven that he is no conservative. He leaves the borders open to anyone who wants to stroll across and take advantage of Americans.
23 posted on 01/06/2003 10:17:40 AM PST by janetgreen
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To: Sabertooth
Want to make it harder for terrorists to acquire the bona fides of a solid citizen? Good luck. Across America, an alliance of immigration advocacy groups, state bureaucracies, local school boards, law enforcement, the Democratic Party and a substantial chunk of the Republican Party (including the President) is wedded to the notion that the best way to deal with the country's vast army of the "undocumented" is to turn a blind eye when they come to the DMV wicket -- and that way they'll all gradually acquire their documents, and be eligible for welfare, education, health care and ultimately to vote for the Democrats in large numbers and (so Bush dreams) for the Republicans in small but significant numbers.

Wrong wicket. This is a wicket that almost all Americans go through to get what is now standard identification. I've known blind people who get "drivers" licenses with the restriction that they're not allowed to drive, so that they can have acceptable ID for writing a check. Whether or not such a source of standard ID is a good or bad idea, making it hard to get a driver's license will get a lot of people legitimately annoyed.

There are two problems here: 1. Keeping dangerous people out of the country, legally and illegally. 2. Keeping illegals from getting welfare benefits.

Second problem first, the problem isn't getting identification. It's the range of unnecessary services that the country provides. Decrease or eliminate government welfare provisions and illegals won't be taking as much of them. Get the government out of health care there will be fewer illegals getting such benefits.

As for keeping dangerous people out, we need better security at the borders and better screening of people who are allowed in. My libertarian streak tells me that anyone who wishes to come to this country to work for a living should be allowed to. But my streak for keeping the country secure tells me that those coming in should have to be checked, carefully, before they are allowed in and those who try to sneak in without going through such checks should be stopped.

Making it hard to get in, except through proper procedure will make things difficult for would-be terrorists. Making it hard to get government benefits, will make things difficult for people who come to the U.S. to collect benefits without work. Making it hard to get a driver's license will make things difficult for all of us.

24 posted on 01/06/2003 10:17:55 AM PST by Celtjew Libertarian
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To: alwaysconservative
I agree with you. I really like the President and feel he's doing a terrific job. Prior to 9/11 I have to admit I wasn't crazy about him as I saw him as weak and unfocused. However, he has really stood up to the challenges that our country faces. Many issues at hand are old issues with no easy answers and sorry, we are a very large country, and a lot of people but much more land than populace to oversee everything that occurs. On top of that we are a diverse nation. It's not an easy job. What I'd like to know is anyone going after the crackpot who sold his ID to the illegal mexican working at the White House?
25 posted on 01/06/2003 10:39:45 AM PST by WellsFargo94
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To: Sabertooth; Mercuria; diotima; nunya bidness; dighton
Ohmigosh, Steyn's brilliant. He's brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. This line had me spittin' out my coffee, no exaggeration:
If this was ever a good idea, it isn't since September 11th: If five al-Qaeda Pakistanis on British passports really did slip across the border -- well, OK, not "slip," that makes it sound as if it requires some skill -- but, if they really did get across the 49th parallel, all they have to do is hook up with America's "undocumented" support network and the Tennessee DMV will do the rest.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

26 posted on 01/06/2003 11:02:06 AM PST by AnnaZ
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To: Joe Bonforte
I understand that Daschle is considering a run ... you might vote for him.
27 posted on 01/06/2003 11:12:10 AM PST by altura
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To: janetgreen
I understand Hillary is considering a run ... maybe you could vote for her.
28 posted on 01/06/2003 11:14:48 AM PST by altura
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: altura
I understand that Daschle is considering a run ... you might vote for him.

Well, if you're an enthusiastic Bush supporter, then your preferred policies are closer to Tommy Daschle than mine.

31 posted on 01/06/2003 4:26:17 PM PST by Joe Bonforte
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To: Celtjew Libertarian
I've known blind people who get "drivers" licenses with the restriction that they're not allowed to drive, so that they can have acceptable ID for writing a check.

Why don't they just apply for a state issued ID card instead of a driver's license? In every state that I've lived in, that state's Department of Motor Vehicles issued both driver's licenses and ID cards.

32 posted on 01/06/2003 5:04:57 PM PST by judgeandjury
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To: Sabertooth
they have no reason to steer in the direction in which you'd like them to go.

Other than that each should honor their oath to uphold the laws of the United States. As if that mattered to any of them.

33 posted on 01/06/2003 7:21:24 PM PST by Pelham
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To: Sabertooth
Now, with the Senate, the House, and the Presidency in GOP hands, Bush no longer has Tom Daschle to use as an alibi. It's put up or shut up time for the Republicans, and our President.

I don't think things are going to change that much regarding immigration. The fact that the Liberals and the media favor immigration may in part explain the failure of the GOP to speak out and do something against it in fear that the media would accuse them of being mean, heartless, and exclusive. We have seen how the GOP and the public have behaved at the media censure of Trent Lott. On the other hand, going against public opinion may also be a detriment for the Republic Party come 2004. So far, doing nothing hasn't had many consequences because, even thought the majority of people want immigration reduced, they haven't retaliated against their members of Congress when they have failed to comply.

34 posted on 01/06/2003 7:22:18 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: justanotherfreeper
Spencer Abraham was the first to feel the heat. Brownback would be a good encore.
35 posted on 01/06/2003 7:25:21 PM PST by Pelham
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To: altura
Vote for Hillary? Wouldn't dream of it. I also wouldn't dream of voting for Bush again, I'll vote third party.
36 posted on 01/06/2003 9:24:55 PM PST by janetgreen
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To: *immigrant_list; madfly; Tancredo Fan; Marine Inspector; Joe Hadenuf; Tailgunner Joe; ShuShu; ...
ping
37 posted on 01/07/2003 12:06:16 AM PST by gubamyster
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To: janetgreen; altura; Sabertooth
If Hillary or another Liberal Democrat gets elected, it'll be because Bush and the Republican Party failed their conservative base.

According to Marine Inspector, at least 5,000 illegal aliens are entering our country everyday, since Bush took office.

That's unconscionable.

I'm not giving Bush and the other RINOs another 18 months to do what they know should have been done more than 18 years ago.

He doesn't have any time to waste in my book.

38 posted on 01/07/2003 6:18:12 AM PST by 4Freedom
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To: Free the USA; B4Ranch; Tancredo Fan; Marine Inspector; Ajnin; agitator; Tancred; Spiff; backhoe; ...
ping
39 posted on 01/07/2003 6:46:27 AM PST by madfly
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To: WellsFargo94
What I'd like to know is anyone going after the crackpot who sold his ID to the illegal mexican working at the White House?

No. The President you love and adore has made it nearly impossible for the INS to go after illegal aliens. And the last thing he wants is to bring more light to his complete failure on the issue of illegal aliens.

40 posted on 01/07/2003 7:11:54 AM PST by Marine Inspector
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