Cop took just 3 seconds to shoot dog

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Thursday, January 9, 2003

[eno_]

Some people think high-speed chases make good TV. But many people think they make really stupid-ass public safety policy. Do you really think cops have nothing to learn regarding the use of dangerous tactics and deadly force? That article about dealing with dogs sure indicates otherwise.

[optimistically_conservative]

I'm not sure where this is leading. I'd rather the police buy a few helicopters and break off a high speed pursuit as soon as the helicopter can get in position to pursue. Let the cars fall back and use the radio to stay close enough should the perp bail. That's not always feasible for smaller town budgets, but that's my preference.

Do you really think cops have nothing to learn regarding the use of dangerous tactics and deadly force?

I think police should always be in the learning process and especially in how new technologies can be used to reduce the use of deadly force.

I think neighborhoods policing themselves and neighborhood policing would go a long way toward reducing law enforcement use of deadly force.

[eno_]

I think you could do better simply by firing every cop that WANTS to wear a ninja suit and break down people's doors. Such people should not be allowed anywhere near the job of policing. The other thing that would help would be to just go out and pick up every known perp with a default warrant. This is a big "Duh!" Most of the worst repeat offenders are already arrestable. But then, of course, crime would plummet and we would only need half (or less) of the police we have.

[Ken H]

Here's something that I came across at "The Tennessean" news site from 01/14/03.

The article says it is Officers Hall's police report from 01/01/03. I boldened the portion that is relevant to my point.

Here is the quote from Hall regarding the dog shooting:

"Suddenly, a dog jumped from the suspects' vehicle, singled me out from the other officers, and charged toward me, growling in an aggressive manner. I yelled at the dog to get back but it attempted to circle me to attack, so I felt I had no other option but to protect myself.

Notice that Officer Hall did not claim that the dog actually attacked or lunged at him.

Neither did he claim that the dog actually circled him.

He only said that it "attempted to circle me to attack."

If Hall believed that the dog was lunging at him, he would have said so since that would be a major point in his defense.

I conclude that whatever it is the dog is doing on the video in the last moments, Officer Hall is saying he believed it was in preparation for an attack.

Any thoughts?

http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/03/01/27645288.shtml

[Ken H]

Here's the link: http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/03/01/27645288.shtml

[AnAmericanMother]

I'd rather the police buy a few helicopters and break off a high speed pursuit as soon as the helicopter can get in position to pursue.

Speaking as a former worker for the City of Atlanta Police Helicopter Squad (the old version, before Maynard Jackson destroyed it), I don't think that would work. Even a big city can afford only a few copters, and given their range and turnaround time, they can't be ready to go at all times. They can only participate in a few chases -- when our guys got involved it was a big deal. Then you have the problems of weather . . . .

And of course, once you publicize the fact that your policy is not to pursue, EVERYBODY runs.

[Ken H]

From the Channel 5 news site, quoting from their interview with Officer Hall.

Here is how Hall described what happened next.

"As the dog came out, he came right at me. It was like a pitbull and it still came as I backed up. Then something happened after that."

Nothing else about the dog's actions is said by Hall in this article.

I guarantee you one thing, if I ever shot a dog who started to lunge at me, I would be making that point loud and clear every chance I got. I wouldn't say "something happened" or that the dog was attempting to move in such a way so that it could attack.

The claim that the video shows a dog either initiating an attack or commiting an attack is once again not backed up by Officer Hall's statements in this article.

http://216.247.183.73/news/0301/10/police_hall.htm

[Ken H]

Try again with link-- http://216.247.183.73/news/0301/10/police_hall.htm

[AnAmericanMother]

Here's the huge, vicious "pit bull" . . . not.

Supposed to be an American Bulldog - Boxer mix.

[delacoert]

I guarantee you one thing, if I ever shot a dog who started to lunge at me, I would be making that point loud and clear every chance I got. I wouldn't say "something happened" or that the dog was attempting to move in such a way so that it could attack.

If the only factor was the specific threat posed by the dog I'd tend to agree. However, when providing backup, the imperative is to protect the other officers from any and all threats. It is obvious to me that the specific threat of the dog attacking Hall himself was just a piece of the overall threat which was the disruption of control at the scene.

One could imagine that if the felony stop was legitimate, bad guys could have used the opportunity provided by the disruption to overwhelm a police officer.

Hall's decision to shoot was correct within the context of a legitimate felony stop. How was he supposed to know that it was not legit? The THCP dispatcher had set him up believe that carjacking/robbery suspects were being restrained. The THP troopers were in charge at the scene. He was providing backup. A dog is running into the middle scene and maybe attacking. It looks like a pit bull. A split second to decide.

[DeathfromBelow]

Your watch must have stopped. Better buy a timex

[Swordmaker]

Your watch must have stopped. Better buy a timex

Why? The entire unedited video is about 4 minutes and includes the cars moving on the road, the pullover, the extraction of the suspects from the car, the cuffing, the dog leaving, the dog being shot and the aftermath.

My watch has no problem.

[mel]

That is what I think also, I think that entire family could have easily been murdered if they had made one wrong move, did you see my post about the dog today, there will be meeting Friday, someone said this is the third dog that Eric Hall has murdered, he has a itchy finger. SCARY

[Ken H]

I agree with much of that post. It's entirely possible Hall acted within the guidelines of a felony stop procedure.

Hall's biggest problem, IMO, is the issue of public trust. Fairly or unfairly, he's the ogre at this point in the story. New facts may come out to change that, and the THP has yet to receive the same scrutiny.

Despite all that, I'm guessing his career in law enforcement is over. He shot an innocent family's pet dog and it's been seen on tape all over the US.

That is going to be very difficult to overcome.

[eno_]

Anyone have a picture of the shooter? We need this guy permanently in the Internet's memory.

[eno_]

He shot an innocent family's pet dog and it's been seen on tape all over the US.

It's a worldwide story. If anything, the international press is even more down on the shooting. The U.S. press feeds at the police PR trough too much.

[dcwusmc]

Anybody ever hear any followup on what happened to officer Hall? Did he skate, as usual? Or did something actually HAPPEN???

[ambrose]

,,

[Triggerhippie]

This thread is now 700 posts long!