Shuttle Contact LOST-No Tracking Data During RE-Entry!

Nasa TV | 02/01/03 | GRRRR

[GRRRRR]

Shuttle has NOT been heard from or seen on tracking radar since 0800Hrs CDT. No contact at Merrit Island tracking station, no voice comm...DEVELOPING.

[capitan_refugio]

That was the mother of the "Teacher in Space," Christa McAuliff (hope I spelled he name correctly). Her parents were at Kennedy Space Center for the launch. I remember it well.

[joanie-f]

I didn't believe the earlier reports of remains being found .... but I'm glad there are remains for their relatives to bury. Maybe we can build a memorial and a common grave area for them if the families want that. I hope we find some remains from all of them. But the details of that don't have be publicized.

I, too, find it difficult to believe that any body parts at all survived burning up in the apparent explosion, or in the re-entry through the atmosphere. The metal parts that have been recovered are so charred and disfigured that the odds of what is being reported about recovery of human body parts is inconceivable to me.

I of course didn’t know any of the astronauts personally, and forgive me if you think this insensitive, but, as President Bush voiced today, I would like to think that they are all now safely home. And, were I a mother, or a sister, or a wife, of one of them, whether or not I had a recovered a body part to bury would be of no significance. My loved one died in the tragic explosion. He will continue to live on in the memories of those who knew and loved him. No physical remains are of any significance.

[eno_]

Even if they were able to dock at the ISS, it is very possible that whatever damage was done would not have been discernable or would not have yielded any information beyond what the NASA observers on the ground were able to deduce from looking at the video of the launch. You are completely correct. There are thousands of additional reasons a trip to IIS might not have done anything to help the situation. Two things would have to be true for that to be worthwhile: a) They could take a close enough look at the tiles to provide significant extra information, and b) The risks of transferring the crew to ISS, resupplying by Progress (which has a chance of failure) retrieveing the crew on the next shuttle mission, etc. would have to be lower than the risk of returning on this shuttle. If those conditions cannot be met, and there are many reasons they might not be, NASA made the right choice. However, if they simply choose to operate the mission as if there were no ISS, no Soyuz, no March shuttle mission, no supplies arriving on a Progress, etc., then they failed to take a plausible alternative into account.

[JohnBovenmyer]

And this time build it out of titanium instead of aluminum.

Ti has better strength and thermal characteristics, but is 2/3 more dense than Al. Good idea, but weight may limit its use. Certainly we'll need a new something to replace Columbia. Certainly we should take advantage of newer materials and technology, but don't push the envelope so far that it takes forever to enter service! We didn't have enough heavy launch capacity before today. Maybe we shouldn't have stopped making the Saturn V. It certainly could have gotten the ISS up there faster. For the long haul we need newer, better, cheaper lift options. Private non-NASA initiatives offer the best chance if the government would get out of their way.

[CharacterCounts]

But I saw a single $5 1991 Columbia commemorative coin from the Marshall Islands which was listed at $9.99. It's over $1900 right now.

It is over $2,500 right now.

Next week there will be at least 100 identical coins offered on Ebay. Most will no even receive an opening bid.

[capitan_refugio]

The Challenger dialog was a hoax, however, there is some evidence that one or more crewmembers survived the "explosion." That evidence included that two or more of the emergency breathing packs were partially consumed, and that switches on the pack had been put into the on position.

Also, the condition of the orbiter debris recovered from the ocean indicated that the main deck of the orbiter remained intact through the explosion and to the crash into the ocean. They know this because the pieces of the main deck were fairly close to each other on the ocean floor. If the orbiter had blown completely apart at altitude, the debris would have been widespread.

Resnick's pack was almost empty, indicating possible hyperventilation breathing, whereas other packs were only partially emptied, suggesting the occupant was unconcious or dying.

I put the word "explosion" in quotation marks because there is another, more technically accurate word for what the fuel did, but I can recall it at this time. I'll have to do some research.

[lodwick]

Doug & Betty Haviland, courtesy the Guild

God bless you both.

[Darksheare]

True enough, but teh last time we built anything out of titanium, Kelly Johnson was in charge of Lockheed Skunkworks....
It is denser, but takes better punishment.
I'm reminded that it was Clinton and NASA who decided that the shuttle replacement could be pushed back a few years.
And Carter who cut the original budget for it so that it ended up being aluminum bodied rather than titanium...

As Nasa says, "Cheaper, Better, Faster.. pick any two."
Disgusting that it takes the death of our astronauts to point out the faults in that idiotic thinking at NASA.

[Paul Ross]

A stop at the ISS might have vindicated a number of concepts, not least the idea of a space station itself, the flexibility of a space-plane like the shuttle, etc. Instead, conventional thinking and a timid approach funneled events into a disaster.

I think you may well prove right about the missed opportunities by NASA's cursory 'mission-threat' analysis of the debris strike. Your check-list warrants serious consideration for future missions, although I am not sure if they had enough fuel in the OMS tanks to get them to an ISS rendevous. But it would sure beat the alternative as we unfortunately witnessed.

This is all second-guessing, but they should also look at having a reasonable capability for their own self-inspection of the underside of the shuttle. A simple remotely-controlled little camera could be deployed by the astronauts to allow them to check things out. And they may want to routinely carry along an EVA suit with the appropriate mobility rocket pack to go around themselves for repairs, if warranted. And, yeah, they may need to come up with a quickee-repair patch solution. Maybe squirt some ablasive goo on the damaged area. Of course, we don't at this point know the actual cause of the breakup, but if it was the launch debris, we also don't know what the precise damage and failure mode was. It may have been something beside the tiles. Maybe the wheel-well panel was dislodged, and high-temp blow-by did the deed. We may never know for sure...but lets hope that we can make these craft safe enough to rely on.

Meanwhile, I would strongly urge the Administration to seriously push for some alternative space-lift tech. We must not be limited to one vehicle design. I believe we should develop a new unmanned Heavy Lift Launch Vehicle, utilizing the SRBs from the shuttle. They are awesome. And we should take full advantage of the X-33 program tech and develop an Single Stage to Orbit manned launcher, that is routinely launched (as was the X-15, etc) from a 'carrier' plane.

[twyn1]

Thread with link to Launch Debris

There are some questions posted there about the insulating "foam", also how long a crew could stay on the space station awaiting pick-up -- could those who are more knowledgeable check that thread out and answer the questions ??

[George W. Bush]

No physical remains are of any significance.

I think you're wrong. Even after all these years, you read about people wanting the remains of their dead from Vietnam, Korea, WW II.

It gives them a closure. And it doesn't have to make sense to you. It might give the rest of us a closure too, to have a funeral for our astronauts and to have something of them to bury.

Hopefully, people will offer some prayers that the searchers locate the remains for the sakes of the families.

[JohnBovenmyer]

I'm reminded that it was Clinton and NASA who decided that the shuttle replacement could be pushed back a few years.

And it was Algore who was touted as picking the replacement, thus guaranteeing that the wrong one was picked!

[B-Chan]

[William McKinley]

Thanks. Like I said, I heard them talking about it on the radio but didn't catch the exact number. But it's design lifetime was 100 missions.

[Darksheare]

Yup.
And instead of picking a replacement, they canceled it.
And then 'magically' stretched the shuttle life out past 2010.
Liberals always tend to feel that physics conform to their thinking..

[yoe]

We are at the end of this tragic day and all ready the pundits are talking about things they know little about and what will happen to NASA. If these people would just stop and think for once - we have a Space Station up there that can't be ignored for more than a few months. We have men on it, in other words, the project (s) must go on and another shuttle must be built ASAP.

Write your congressmen to support any immediate program to start building another shuttle, we cannot wait for the endless rounds of partisan bickering; some needless social programs will just have to be shelved and the money put to use for a new shuttle.

[Kevin Curry]

We still have the Discovery, Atlantis and Endeavour.

[lodwick]

Bumps again - don't stop posting here, and what a superb homepage you've constructed. Wonderful.

[Darksheare]

Enterprise.. but she's a Tarmac Queen.

[wasp69]

You may want to go back and reread that thread again. The images that are being debated were shot with a Sony camcorder of a television. What Freedom Calls and others cannot explain away is the flat spinning object to the lower right of the object in question. I gotta admit, they made a pretty good case until I saw that. The spinning object is flat, and big, which would explain why the rudder is missing from the object. Not only that, the original video was shot not with a camcorder on the ground but by a news station photographer in an aircraft. Another poster said that the Dallas newstation (WFAA) played the video along with the live coms between the shuttle and NASA and the comms end seconds before the shuttle comes into that shot. Give it a look.