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Hart Blames US Jews For Pushing US Toward War
The Washington Post ^ | 2/13/03 | Howard Kurtz Media Notes column

Posted on 02/14/2003 8:05:14 AM PST by Gothmog

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To: Gothmog
and a possible (ha ha ha) presidential candidate

Hart is just trying to get attention. Pat Paulson, even though he is dead, has a greater chance of winning the Presidency than Hart!

41 posted on 02/14/2003 9:22:46 AM PST by timestax
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To: Gothmog
F*** Gary Hart, and F*** the Democratic Party for continuing to divide America along religious and ethnic lines.
42 posted on 02/14/2003 9:22:59 AM PST by monkeyshine
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To: Cacophonous
So the bigger question: why does the US allow dual citizenship at all?

No, bub.

The bigger question is "Why not allow dual citizenship?" What's the harm?

You've got the burden of proof that there's something nefarious about it.

43 posted on 02/14/2003 9:29:31 AM PST by sinkspur
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To: Cacophonous
The answer to your question "why does the US allow dual citizenship?" is a simple one.

Citizenship is a matter of law. To become an American citizen is a matter of the Constitution. If you are born in the USA, you are an American. Also, if you are born of American citizens in a foreign country, you are also an American. If you are born in France, you are a French citizen according to French law. If you are born in France to American citizens, you are both American and French. If you are born in America to French citizens, you are both French and American. It's in our consitution, and I beleive theirs. It's a simple matter of reading the Constitution and Laws of the other countries regarding citizenship. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say you have to choose one or the other, it simply says you are an American if you qualify.

44 posted on 02/14/2003 9:29:33 AM PST by monkeyshine
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To: Gothmog
A 1994 report in the International Migration Review said that about 1/3 of the Israeli-born immigrants to the United States were Arab, not Jewish.
we found that over 30% of Israeli-born Americans are Palestinian-Arab natives of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza Strip.

45 posted on 02/14/2003 9:31:48 AM PST by syriacus (Going to the UN is like being locked in the Castle of Despair. Better to stay far away, Pilgrim.)
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To: Cacophonous
I know what you're talking about - I'm telling you being Jewish is not something that has anything to do with loyalty to the U.S.

They belong to the land - and it doesn't matter where they live - they still belong to Israel. To demand otherwise is unrealistic.
46 posted on 02/14/2003 9:33:14 AM PST by CyberAnt ( Yo! Syracuse)
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To: Cacophonous
So the bigger question: why does the US allow dual citizenship at all?

No, that is not the bigger question. Dual citizenship in general is never brought up as an issue. The only time that it ever comes up is to question the loyalty of that very tiny minority of U.S. Jews who have Israeli citizenship.

I'd like to see one, just ONE article that questions dual U.S.-France, U.S.-Canada or some other dual that doesn't mention Israel.

47 posted on 02/14/2003 9:34:50 AM PST by Alouette
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To: Gothmog
What does Hart think of the influence of immigrant Jews who were born in Arab countries, before Israel was founded in 1948? There must be some of them among immigrants to the US.
From: THE DISPLACEMENT OF JEWS FROM ARAB COUNTRIES
In 1948 there were over 850,000 Jews living in the Arab countries of the Middle East and North Africa. By 1976, a generation later, most of the Jewish communities in these countries had disappeared, leaving behind a few thousand Jews, scattered over a number of cities in the region.

48 posted on 02/14/2003 9:44:08 AM PST by syriacus (Going to the UN is like being locked in the Castle of Despair. Better to stay far away, Pilgrim.)
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To: Jack Black
And your source for this information is? I have lived in Jewish communities for many years, grew up in a Jewish neigborhood and school. I don't know one American born Jew with a Israeli passport. Not one. I've never seen any data to support your bold claim.

Yes, lets squash this lie quickly before it starts being believed. Jews have lived in many lands, In fact they were disbursed from Israel of old specifically to allow the religion to die out. (Lack of community you know). It did not work. But Jews always have their first loyalty to their country of origin, and Israel does not expect a Jew to maintain a second loyalty. (It is not preached from the pulpit, nor do services pledge loyalty to Israel in synagogues, thats another lie) Jewish services actually have a lot incommon with Christian services, except that the original hebrew of many christian prayers is said in hebrew. (and Christians have new prayers reflecting the influence of Jesus, but they still have many of the original Jewish service prayers. Such as The Lord bless you and keep you...)

I knew one family who sang Hatikva as part of the passover service, and Jews pray "Next year in Jerusalem" as part of that famous service, but it is not to create dual loyalties. (And this service is a home service anyway).

Jews do support Israel with their votes and charities. Plant a tree in Israel" Etc. Why do you think both parties pledge support for Israel, the two percent or so of Jews may swing an election someday. (remember the close one in florida). But dual loyalty is another anti-sementic lie.

Of course there are Jews who have more significant loyalty to Israel, where part of the family lives there for example, but this still is not as strong as their patriotism for America. Did you know that dual citizens who reside in Israel during military age will be drafted? Now thats dual citizenship. But they live over there.

49 posted on 02/14/2003 9:47:36 AM PST by KC_for_Freedom
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To: dennisw
Hey, my brother-in-law is a 16 year Army Sgt training troops in So. Germany right now for special assignment, does that count?
50 posted on 02/14/2003 9:51:50 AM PST by princess leah
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To: sinkspur
Not nefarious. But it forces people to choose between the US and the land they may call home, and it is an unfair burden to place on people.
51 posted on 02/14/2003 9:52:29 AM PST by Cacophonous
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To: sinkspur
What's the harm? Maybe it's not useful (from a purely US point of view) to have Mexican's crossing our border, voting in our elections solely with an eye towards how the US can funnel more assistance to Mexico as some have suggested happens. Maybe it isn't useful for the US to give Israel a pass when they send controlled US technology to China solely because Jewish Americans are perceived to be willing to back Israel even when it works against US interests.

Sorry, bub. The burden of proof, IMHO, should be on those who'll tolerate those involved in the US political process who aren't clearly prepared to place the interests of the US first.

52 posted on 02/14/2003 9:53:10 AM PST by caltrop
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To: syriacus
Jews of Iraq  
... that by the middle of July 1950 more than 110,000 Iraqi Jews had registered for emigration.

The Jewish community in Iraq had been one of the oldest and largest in the Arab world, and in 1948 it numbered 135,000. Over 77,000 lived in Baghdad alone, comprising a fourth of the capital's population. The community was wealthy and prestigious, and before World War II, Jews held a dominant place in the import trade and occupied high government positions.

  The overwhelming majority of the population was relocated to Israel, as a result of intensified anti-Jewish actions ... Hundreds were killed and imprisoned during several anti-Jewish riots.


53 posted on 02/14/2003 9:54:55 AM PST by syriacus (Going to the UN is like being locked in the Castle of Despair. Better to stay far away, Pilgrim.)
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To: Cacophonous
The question assumes that people are not reasonable, and not capable of discerning right from wrong... and grapple solely with emotional ties. I reject that on principle.
54 posted on 02/14/2003 9:55:30 AM PST by monkeyshine
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To: Cacophonous
But it forces people to choose between the US and the land they may call home, and it is an unfair burden to place on people.

I know I'm dense, but I fail to see how allowing people to have dual citizenship forces them to choose between the US and their native land.

In fact, it doesn't force them to choose, which is its most attractive feature.

55 posted on 02/14/2003 9:56:02 AM PST by sinkspur
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To: monkeyshine
Actually, dual citizenship was illegal until 1967, and it is still illegal (just ignored by the State Department) for those gaining US citizenship through naturalization (legally, they have to renounce their other citizenship).
56 posted on 02/14/2003 9:56:03 AM PST by Cacophonous
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To: Gothmog; Nonstatist
But Hart said the line was not directed to Jews, but referring to any ethnic group that exerts a "disproportionate" influence on U.S. foreign policy.

After Hart finished a speech at the Stanford Law School Wednesday, a reporter from ABC News's Internet-based newsletter "The Note" asked him to whom or what he was referring.

ABC's report said Hart was at first reluctant to give specific examples, but then offered up Irish Americans and Cuban Americans as two of many examples of lobbying groups who, in his view, sometimes exercise disproportionate power and skew U.S. policy.


57 posted on 02/14/2003 9:57:07 AM PST by tictoc (How I wish I had kept my old MAD magazine issues)
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To: caltrop
No bub. The accusation is that some people are not willing to place American interests first. The burden is on the accuser to prove the accusation. Being Jewish is no evidence at all.
58 posted on 02/14/2003 9:57:25 AM PST by monkeyshine
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To: Alouette
Well I've questioned it. I question dual US-Israel, dual US-Canada, US-Germany....I question the whole practice of dual citizenship.
59 posted on 02/14/2003 9:58:58 AM PST by Cacophonous
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To: caltrop
Maybe it isn't useful for the US to give Israel a pass when they send controlled US technology to China

Exactly what controlled US technology did the Chinese buy from the Israelis that they couldn't get from Bill Clinton for free?

60 posted on 02/14/2003 9:59:18 AM PST by Alouette
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