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Assault rifles offer a bit too much for home defense
Indy Star ^

Posted on 02/16/2003 8:38:11 PM PST by conservativefromGa

John Strauss

Assault rifles offer a bit too much for home defense

February 14, 2003

As store shelves throughout the city are emptied of duct tape and plastic sheeting by people concerned about terrorist attacks, other folks think the best defense is a good offense.

Don Davis said gun sales at his Westside store have doubled since the latest terrorism alert. He said the $599 AK-47 is a top seller.

Davis became locally famous a few years ago with endlessly repeated TV commercials in which he cocked a finger at the camera and cackled, "Folks, I don't want to make money -- I just love to sell guns."

It turns out that terrorism sells.

"For me, when times are bad, business is good," Davis said Thursday.

He was at a trade show in Florida this week, shopping for gas masks for customers suddenly nervous about chemical or biological attacks.

At his Don's Guns, manager Ben Chance let me test-fire the AK-47 and a $999 Bushmaster, similar to the military M-16, in the store's indoor range.

The Bushmaster delivers a high-velocity round very accurately with little kick. The AK-47 will give you a jolt, but with that kick you get a larger round capable, they say, of going through a car's engine block.

Just what you need to stop terrorists invading your subdivision.

Of course, some people might end up with guns simply for home protection. And if that's the case, Chance says, an old-fashioned shotgun might do the trick.

"A 12-gauge is a nice gun to have in the house. You don't have to aim the gun. You just point it in the general vicinity, and you're actually going to hit what you're pointing toward, because (the shot) scatters."

Business also was up at 500 Guns on the Westside and at Pop Guns Trading Post on the Eastside. But managers at those stores said that had more to do with the arrival of income tax refund checks than Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein.

"There have been a few people come in and express concern," said Mike Hilton, the manager at Pop Guns. "But overall, people tend to be pretty complacent about it, to be honest."

Hilton said he recommends that someone who wants a gun take a training course. Then, once he has an idea of their skill level, he'll suggest a firearm -- often a small revolver.

He's not big on the AK-47 in this case. If used for self-defense, it's likely to "overpenetrate" -- go right through the attacker, through the wall of your home, through the wall of the next house and into somebody there.

Guy Montgomery, manager of 500 Guns, also recommends a revolver -- not a battlefield rifle -- for home defense.

Still, there's a magnetism about the assault weapons. Firing one of these guns is the shooting equivalent of twisting the throttle on a squat Harley -- lots of noise and simple, raw power.

They're fun, but they may not be real practical.

So if you're convinced al-Qaida is down the street and you want to establish a defensive perimeter in the front hallway, do the neighbors a favor.

Just borrow dad's old shotgun.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: assaultrifles; banglist; guns
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Even #7 1/2 bird shot at 20 feet will inflict a wicked wound that will take the fight right out of an intruder.

Unless the intruder is wearing a IIA vest.

121 posted on 02/17/2003 7:13:48 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: harpseal
This is not to say that a shotgun is not an execellent home defense pice just that like everything it has its limitations.

You forgot about the one where the home invaders are wearing kevlar vests. Shotgun is worthless in this situation. AK or AR round will do just fine here.

122 posted on 02/17/2003 7:17:37 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: Long Cut
If you get a Fal go with the metric version rather than inch, reason being more magazines at lower price also the inch pattern mags have a small metal piece brazed/welded on the top front of the magazine just below the feed lips to strengthen the magazine while you can put metric pattern mags in a inch rifle & have them function you can't do the same with inch pattern mags in a metric rifle unless you grind the little metal tab off since there is no space milled out of the reciever to accomodate the tab
123 posted on 02/17/2003 7:20:33 AM PST by Nebr FAL owner (.308 "reach out and thump someone " & .50 cal Browning "reach out & CRUSH someone)
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To: harpseal
I, too have a Mossberg 590 with 20" barrel, full-length tube that holds 8 (+1 in the chamber!), ghost ring sights, and speed feed stock.

I sleep better at night knowing that anything coming in without an invitation will be scraped up and put into a bodybag.
124 posted on 02/17/2003 7:28:55 AM PST by bc2
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To: Blue Jays
Absolutely.

If this so-called great idea of chambering a round in the dark and when a person is nervous is so wonderful, why isn't it used for every weapon?

All weapons can be chambered or revolver cylinders closed. Why is it only applicable to shotguns?

Answer: it isn't.

The only solution is to be aware of where the housebreaker is before he knows where the homeowner is. The homeowner should be behind hard cover and holding a ready weapon. Everything else is Hollywood B.S.
125 posted on 02/17/2003 7:29:14 AM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: razorback-bert
Gee, I am sure under powered with my $50 rusted Sears (Stevens) single shot 16 guage.

It is not the gun it is the man behind the gun that counts. Some of us do live by the rule one can never ever have too many guns.

126 posted on 02/17/2003 7:29:19 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Long Cut
One other little oddity concerning FN-Fal's if you do get one be certain to check the gas piston /operating rod several folks have been cutting the steel rod in half & then threading on an aluminum piece at the end to make the rod the correct length to qualify as a required American made part. The problem is that after firing a few dozen round the aluminum BENDS & is able to cause damage to the reciever end of the gas system but for $20.00 you can get a new made stainless steel gas piston as well as other parts from tapco.com .
127 posted on 02/17/2003 7:29:51 AM PST by Nebr FAL owner (.308 "reach out and thump someone " & .50 cal Browning "reach out & CRUSH someone)
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To: cinFLA
"You just point it in the general vicinity, and you're actually going to hit what you're pointing toward, because (the shot) scatters."
Only very slightly at indoor distances.

Shot generally expands about 1 inch per yard of travel, which translates into a plate-size pattern at the end of the hall

Although one time I did absent-mindedly shoot buckshot through a rifled 12-guage barrel (which is designed for rifled slugs). It produced a yard-wide doughnut pattern at 7 yards, due to the spin imparted to the buckshot.

128 posted on 02/17/2003 7:33:12 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (To see the ultimate evil, visit the Democrat Party)
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To: Blue Jays
No flame intended, but there tends to be quite a bit of misinformation distributed online about shotgun technique.

EXACTLY! Racking your slide when you have a intruder in your home mostly accomplished two things,you give away your position to a intruder who may be armed with a gun that is already loaded,and you risk a jam by "short-stroking" it while under pressure. Don't laugh. It happens. So does forgetting to take the safety off.

129 posted on 02/17/2003 7:43:22 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: razorback-bert
Gee, I am sure under powered with my $50 rusted Sears (Stevens) single shot 16 guage.

Shhhh! If they want to think that,let them.

130 posted on 02/17/2003 7:44:24 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: from occupied ga
Regarding the Kevlar vests. A shotgun is not necessarily worthless in these cases but one would need to have the foresight to use Flechette rounds. Further unless the armor plates were also used it would cause significant blunt trauma to the individual wearing the vest. In short it may just give sufficient time for the head shot.

Is it the best weapon for such without the aforementioned flechette rounds? Probably not, but it is still not useless.

131 posted on 02/17/2003 7:46:43 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: FreedomPoster
There are many opinions, there is no, one, "right" way,

No,but there is only one "right" way that increases your chance of survival,and that is the one that doesn't give away your position until you are in a position to control the situation. Why not just shout out,"Here I come! If you have a gun,you had better shoot me on sight!"?

132 posted on 02/17/2003 7:46:53 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: from occupied ga
Shotgun is worthless in this situation.

Not really. Shoot for the hands and disarm and bleed them out at the same time.

133 posted on 02/17/2003 7:49:02 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: harpseal
Is it the best weapon for such without the aforementioned flechette rounds? Probably not, but it is still not useless

Flenchette rounds are not common. Probably most people don't have them.

significant blunt trauma to the individual wearing the vest

Agreed, but I'll take penetration of the enemy over blunt trauma any day, and the military style rifles beat a shotgun for that Of course a good ol' 30-06 has pretty good penetration too. I'm not sure even a trauma plate will stop one of those. Mostly the trauma plates are rated for .308

134 posted on 02/17/2003 7:55:08 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: sneakypete
Not really. Shoot for the hands and disarm and bleed them out at the same time.

You shoot for the arms and hands. You may be cool enough under fire to aim at the arms and hands, but I'll go with the center of mass with my AK where I have a better chance of hitting.

135 posted on 02/17/2003 7:57:41 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: harpseal
How does the .416 Rigby compare with the .375 H&H?

I've always been a .30 cal rifle shooter (.308, .303 Brit, .30'06, and my dad's .348 Win), but I'm thinking about adding a big game rifle to the stable. I'm a traditionalist and the English calibers are appealing. The next question is whether to go with a double or a magazine type rifle . . .

I love the .348, but (1) it's my dad's and HE's got it (2) it's an orphan (I do the reloading for him) (3) it's purely a close range gun, those big old pills really fall off after about 100 yards

136 posted on 02/17/2003 8:02:23 AM PST by AnAmericanMother ( . . . ah, decisions, decisions! :-D)
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To: conservativefromGa
Does anyone on this forum find it odd that with all the advice we have been peppered with about Terrorism and such, not one (save the usual pro-2nd Amendment folks) person or agency has recommended that we carry a personal weapon 24/7? And provide ourselves adequate "home and land defense?"

I know logid is number six (sex, politics, pecking order, budget, schedule, logic) in the decision tree, but it seems logical to me that if the bad guys knew that the good guys were carrying, they would be less apt to commit an act of terror.

For example, on 9-11, had four citizens (one per plane) been armed, nearly 3,000 people would still be alive, and 19 bad guys would be dead. Four handguns and 19 bullets would have done the trick.

One could logically (There you go again with that "logic" stuff, Taxman!) conclude that the government's obsession with "security" caused nearly 3,000 deaths, couldn't one?

"An armed society is a polite society?"

Just a thought . . .
137 posted on 02/17/2003 8:04:36 AM PST by Taxman
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To: conservativefromGa
Whatever works best for you in your individual circumstances is what you should have for home defense. Only you can determine that - not the writer of this article!

Quite frankly, I'm less worried about an Al Qaeda terrorist bursting through my front door than an Al Qaeda attack which leads to civil breakdown, in which case home-grown looters and criminals may come through my "defenseless" neighborhood looking for easy prey. I would like to have something that can stop them further away than my front door.

In the case of looters, they generally travel in packs, so it is prudent to have something that can take on a vicious pack at a variety of ranges, which can mean more than one or two rounds. The same weapon should suffice nicely for lesser numbered and more crafty criminals that might show up.

An assault rifle of some type works fine in all these circumstances, whereas Dad's old double barreled shotgun might not - despite the writer's insinuation that anything more is silly.

138 posted on 02/17/2003 8:07:37 AM PST by Gritty
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To: conservativefromGa
"The AK-47 will give you a jolt, but with that kick you get a larger round capable, they say, of going through a car's engine block. "

A Yugo, perhaps....

I also hear that these rifles are only effective out to 200 meters.
139 posted on 02/17/2003 8:10:34 AM PST by Constitutional Patriot
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To: from occupied ga
I'll go with the center of mass with my AK where I have a better chance of hitting.

Modern JBT body armor will defeat a AK round --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

140 posted on 02/17/2003 8:11:47 AM PST by sneakypete
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