Posted on 02/28/2003 10:25:11 PM PST by Crusader_062002
I write this with shaking hands. My entire body is shivering, I'm not sure if it is from anger, disgust, or just sadness.
Recently I logged onto www.indymedia.org. I am a firm believer in listening to both sides of a subject before making a decisioin. I posted the following comment underneath an article about a veterans peace movement that advocated dissertion and dissention in the ranks.
I am a soldier, the son of a soldier, and the grandson of a Marine. My friends, and family members have served for generations and the one thing I can tell you is that %99.99 percent of the American Military stand behind the current administration. The fact that you have found a small precentage of disillusioned veterans doesn't make it right. The vet you have linked here, the one speaking right now, is stating facts that are not in existance, and research will demonstrate this fact.
I AM AN AMERICAN SOLDIER. While I do not enjoy the thought of war, wish to die, or enjoy the idea of having to take a human life, I STAND BEHIND MY COUNTRY AND MY COMMANDER IN CHIEF!
The following are responses posted to me. I have left out the three positive posts, but even so you get the gyst. I apologize for the profanity, I know it is a violation of the rules around here but I simply cannot bring myself to put much effort into this post.
Here are the comments:
four generations of wrongs don't make a right, just a right-winger. sorry to say you'll probably die a soldier too, with your corrupter-in-chief standing right behind you. Please consider the statement: "SAVE THE CIVILIANS- KILL THE SOLDIERS."
How do you react? What do you expect the effect might be on others if it was displayed publicly (billboard, etc.)? This is beautiful. We the peaceful are the majority. The military is a foolish brainwashing industry. The enlisted are chorded and thereby controlled through the 7th chakra. No one in there right mind would kill because someone told them to. Those in controll have been manipulating this world in sick and perverted ways for so long that it is hard to see that we live a lifestyle that is out of balance with the world. The sickness is exponetial. What the hell is this guy talking about? If you feel uncomfortable and froth at the mouth like the pro-military guy above, then I say, there is your guide post; showing how far off your center you are. We have no need for war. War is so yesterday. Why waste our time on the horrible little games the cia and secret service created to perpetuate their sickness. We can choose eternal health. How does it make you feel when you see that bushes family was in with the nazis, and our government is acting like Nazis. My great Grandfather died in world war 2; this is at the heart of my fathers emotional blockage. At 19 my other Grandfather saw all his best freinds die. Twisted him for life (after decades he finaly brokedown, related this to us, and begun a healing process). One of my Uncles signed up for Vietnam. After wich he was a raving lunatic for years. Attention Crusader!
Whoa, whoa. Hey, its ok to be a soldier and its honourable to defend your country. I applaud you your sentiments. However, in this particular situation we have now, you might want to think twice about WHAT and WHO you are DEFENDING!
If you think you are defending your country, the question is from what? Nobody is threatening our country are they? Did you hear Congress declare any war? Did the people of United States get any REAL evidence yet of this so-called, Osama bin Laden, if indeed he does exist.
Let me tell you what I and millions of others are seeing so you have a better understanding why all these people are in an uproar.
First, let's start with election 2000. Can we say that George Bush is truly our president when it turns out the voting machines had patchwork(software changes) done on them prior to the election. And then it turns out GW's younger bro is on the Board of directors of the company that got the contract to produce these voting machines. And then to make matters even more outrageous, the 'patchwork' is 'proprietary' according to the company, and they say they don't have to release that information! The State of Georgia, where the machines were manufactured, have said, yes, that patchwork was done on these machines. Now, do we hear about this in the Corporate Media, no, of course not, are you kidding! You get the NEWS through independant media who are not compromised by advertising!
Now, we move on to 9/11.
Can you honestly say you feel we were attacked by Arabs overtaking commercial airliners! What kind of conspiracy theory is this? Did we ever get proof? No. Do you think that leaving the Koran and flight manuals in rental cars are authentic evidence? Do you realize that the CIA does this kind of shit on a daily basis to conveniently frame people for the hidden agendas of the military industrial complex? Have you not studied the Warren commission investigation in JFK murder? Do you realize that the CIA have been laundering money to the tune of 1 tillion dollars annually otherwise wall street would have crashed years ago? Do you realize this is DRUG money? Check out this website: www.fromthewilderness.com . Mike Ruppert, who owns this site, was an ex-LAPD narcs detective with an outstanding record when he served in the late 70's. If you can order his 'Truth and Lies of 9/11' video, its all there and his web site is superb. He is now an investigative journalist with a book coming out soon. Check it out.
Now, back to 911. What was Bush doing at the time the planes were hitting its targets? He was reading to little children in Florida. Did he do anything. No, he continued to read to the children, in fact for an agonizing one half hour after the first hit! Where were our army planes that would intercept a commercial airliner? Nothing happened. Why not? Who gave the orders not to intercept? After a month of the aftermath, Tom Daschle D-ND, began to demand an investigation of 9/11. He was personally asked by Mr.Bush and Mr. Cheney to postpone any investigation so they could deal with the aftermath. But guess what it turns out to be indefinite according to this administration. Before you know it the patriot act was quickly introduced and rammed into law without congress even having a chance to read it and debate. AT that point, Tom Daschle receives anthrax(from US army labs). Interesting, isn't it. Just when he calls for an investigation of 9/11 he gets anthrax to silence him. It seemed to do the trick. Last October, Sen. Paul Wellstone was mysteriously killed in a plane crash. Its mysterious because all evidence from investigative independent media reports that icing was not the problem. No investigation so far. Paul was a powerful voice of the people who was strongly against any force in Iraq, wanted an investigation of 9/11 and questioned the unconstitutionality of thepatriot act. He's conveniently gone now. So, its up to us now. We can't allow Bush et al and the MIC proceed with their agenda that has likely been planned for the last twenty something years. This is oil conglomerates, corporatism gone mad for power.
Sadly, our soldiers are being used like disposable tools, a kind of killing machine to get the job done. It doesn't matter to Rumsfeld if you suffer from moral conflict, get gassed, diseased from all the vaccinations they enforce on you, kill innocent unarmed people.
So, think twice what and who you are defending. Don't be brainwashed by these thugs.
All, as in 100%, of the vets and sodiers who have pulled their heads out of their ass can clearly see the folly of war and the military. I was one of em. So duped I was lost. I feel so much better now that I have realized this. I felt like a ton of bricks was lifted from my head. I was so wrong and confused, that I was afraid and embarased to admit it. But not anymore!!! I humbly stand tall for peace! PS My uncle died at war. They're all the same, all foolish.
think william and crusader would like all of us to think like them. I am so BORED with their concepts. We might as well just read the New York Times. Maybe they are implants attempting to guide the focus. Or maybe they are merely average Joe's who just need deprograming. Who knows. Peace is up to us. Every single veteran who realizes this is a milestone to be honored and celebrated. My grandfather is a vet. He is adamantly against war.
Bush is ruining Americas' libertys. His regimes actions resemble other lunatics like Stalin and Hitler. How shall we rid ourselves of the liars like Bush and Clinton and their regimes. Let's start with diologue. I'm for the least painful path.
Veterans and the enlisted who oppose this type of ridiculus war have my support. Professionalism is a big stumbling block for us all on our way to the greater good (see Ivan Ilich). Profesional soldiers are brainwashed to the verge of rape. This is a sad situation, being so removed from their emotions as to block their highest sexual fulfilment. War ultimately stems from an inbalance in sexuality (see Taoism). All who strive for peace are worthy of commendation
James you sound like one of those psycho military lifers. I should know I was in the military. What a waste of my time. I came out financialy fucked and angry and violent. Now I am for PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE. You get it James. You have no control over me. Your concept of professionalism is wool over the lost little lambs eyes. Shame on you for preying on those with weaker wills. Please spare us and go to a yahoo comment page.
The Defensive Responsibility of the UN and Civil-minded US Leaders
The US leaders who are cloaking an act of aggresion upon a people and state at peace with a defensive premise are violating international law. In the case of an immeadiate threat and armed attack, a defense is naturally and humanely justified.
To the UN: China, Germany, Russia and France. You have a defensive responsibility to confront the aggressor. Talking is one thing, representing the values of the UN is another. And that means protecting the peace and defending against evil actions and human atrocity.
To the US Leadership: We have a domestic policy that parallels the UN policy. We behave ourselves in American. We imprison and execute the haters of humanity who kill our fellow human beings. This is our domestic premise.
Those who think they can go about the globe and directly or indirectly murder people who are behaving themselves and at peace need to understand the American value: We're not greeting you with a spit in the face, we got an electric chair for you.
American leaders need to promote our domestic policy. These leaders are not abouve the law unless we allow them to violate American values and our rule of law. A wake-up law needs to be issued and consequences delineated: life terms and death penalties for acts of inhumanity against a people at peace.
That's the American bottom line. Now put up or shut up. If you shut up and do nothing leaders, you shame the American name and passively support inhumanity and the demise of America.
The following was my response I cut the first scentence off while copying and pasting it to this page.
responses I have found anger, confusion, and conspiracy theories. Instead of what I hoped would be civil discourse I have been personally attacked.
I am a peaceful man. I've been in one fist fight since the fifth grade. I have never shot another living human being, or any creature larger than a squirrel. I don't kick dogs, and I damn sure don't rape. I went into battle praying to never be forced to pull the trigger and end a human life. With each round I loaded into my magazine I felt physically ill. This does not mean I wasn't proud to go and I did not believe in what I was doing. No sane individual wishes to kill. I do not believe in blind obedience of immoral or illegal orders but I see nothing immoral, or illegal in our nations actions.
I wish we could live in a peaceful world but much like a school yard the bullies just don't go away if you play nice. Sometimes you have to bloody someones nose. I joined the Army believing I was doing something for my country. I went into battle believing that I was doing something good for each and every one of YOU out there. I thought I was doing it so you would never have to leave the bubble you live in and face the reality of warfare, and violence. Now I know better. I would go back. I would go to Baghdad, and I would die with a rifle in my hand if that is what God wants, but I wouldn't do it this time for YOU. I would do it for the soldiers around me. I would do it for my family. I would do it so my children never have to.
Despite you I STILL BELIEVE IN MY COUNTRY, and I STILL SUPPORT MY COMMANDER IN CHIEF!
When you are older, and your hair is grey and the idealism is gone and you drive an H4 Hummer I will still believe in God, and Country, and I will always, ALWAYS stand behind my honorable brothers in arms. Until you've humped a few klicks in their boots you will never understand this. As a smart man once told me, As it was, as it is, as it always shall be.
I apologize for the quality of the post, while I know these people represent a small fraction of Americans it still shakes me deeply to read these words.
THIS IS THE AMERICAN PEACE MOVEMENT.
Is this idiot for real? Dont get down when mentally deranged and fact-challenged individuals tear you down.
Stay away from places like that. The messages they wrote were intended to knife you. Those guys aren't worth the bytes and don't deserve any place inside your head and certainly not inside your heart. The people who will accept what they have to say are lost already and beyond help. And as you said, few in number. Misfits find all kinds of slots in life and these misfits just settled into this slot though any misfit-slot would do.
The most lucid of the responses to you strung together a completely unrelated series of events and fabricated one huge conspiracy.
Biggest laugher i saw was that Dasshole was targetd for Anthrax. So was Leahy. So was the National Enquirer.
Yet the author of that screed did not mention the other cases.
The same author asks where were the military planes and why weren't they intercepted. Partially because some NY Reps campaigned against and had closed down military aircraft fields near NYC. Was it Nadler, Schumer, et. al? I don't remember exactly.
These people are not rational. Just look at their logic.
FReegards, 'Pod
You totally agree with what? On another thread you said you were anti-Bush.
I read the above. I feel for Crusader that he had to endure such drivvel. I'm going to that rally to support soldiers like him and those who are now deployed to the Persian Gulf and those deployed else where.
GOD bless Crusader and God bless our troops; our Country; and Prersident Bush!
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