Ugly Aftermath of Roe: Men Now Presume Post-Coital Right to a Dead Baby

NY Newsday ^ | 3-6-2003 | Sheryl McCarthy

[Notwithstanding]

From Los Angeles (NY NewsDay):

“His own private investigator testified that before Bakley's murder Blake discussed with him his plans to kidnap the pregnant woman, force her to have an abortion and, if necessary, kill her.”

[meyer]

Even in those cases, abortion might do more harm than good. If a woman is already very sick or injured, a stressful surgical procedure with a high risk of infection isn't exactly smart medicine.

Perhaps such cases are even rarer than I implied. Nevertheless, my premise was that justification for abortion would be limited to self-defense.

However, I was referring in my post to the general state of pregnancy, of which I have considerable experience, not the exceptional cases.

Understood, and I agree.

[Old Professer]

Reads like the editor graduated from the Don Rickles' School of Headline Writing; at some point, good taste has to either be reasserted or discarded.

What, exactly does this article have to do with the basic issue of Roe vs Wade?

[SarahW]

Someone else used the word "fair" - but isn't that the big complaint - that men aren't being treated fairly?

[Salvation]

** “woman’s choice” is now a “man’s right.”**

And what does God have to say about it? Should not God's will be sought first?

[SarahW]

Pregnancy and childbirth have serious risks, and it cannot be predicted in many cases who will suffer. I'm glad you never did.

I'm also glad you see that women *also* can't be forced to have an abortion or give up the child's right to support from both parents.

[Khepera]

Not my complaint. I dont expect fairness.

[MHGinTN]

Pregnancy and childbirth have serious risks ... The reasoning, the syllogism, actually starts a bit earlier, that sexual intercourse carries the risk of a new individual human coming into existence, that that new individual's life support then carries risks for the woman exposed to the possibility of pregnancy and the father ought bear some of the risk of that life support. BTW, I'm not in any way in favor of removing the male responsibility for life support, for the unborn child or the woman giving life support. I'm certainly not arguing that men should have any right to expect the death of an unborn child, from the standpoint of exposing a woman to the real dangers of abortion or the child to the real terminal results of abortion. Abortion is designed to kill an individual human being. Period. That's not a 'right' to be conveyed to a woman to unilaterally decide either. The law ought deal with the protection of individual human life. All, as in the mother and the child and the father, involved in the perspective of supporting life, not 'choosing to kill'.

[Aquinasfan]

But not unusual: these are all sotries written in the past 2 weeks. That indicates this happens all the time. We know that most incidents do not get covered by any news outlet.

I agree with your judgement. Important post.

[Aquinasfan]

Also not unusual: Middle class PARENTS bullying their pregnant unwed teenager into having an abortion.

I used to do sidewalk prayer vigils outside Planned Infanticide in Brookline. I saw as many mothers pushing their distraught daughters into the abortuary as I did boyfriends. Statistically, I think moms are the leading abortion advocates followed closely by boyenemies.

[Aquinasfan]

Roe v. Wade has done the reverse of what the pro-abortion feminists claim they were seeking ... liberation. Women have become slaves, and men have become liberated ... liberated from feeling any responsibility for their actions.

They probably weren't listening to the Pope in 1968:

Another effect that gives cause for alarm is that a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection.

Humanae Vitae
Pope Paul VI (1968)

[Aquinasfan]

Contraceptives are cheap, plentiful and if used by both parties could avoid the neccessity of this immoral, irresponsible, disgusting , shameful practice.

And what should we expect when the birth control fails? The intent is already there.

[Aquinasfan]

Men cannot choose to terminate the baby like the women...

A telling slip.

[Khepera]

what slip are you talking about my friend?

[Gophack]

Another effect that gives cause for alarm is that a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection.

I couldn't have said it better. Who ever said Catholics had a problem with sex? Between Humanae Vitae and JPII encyclical on love and marriage (name escapes me), I think we're the "progressives" here.

God bless!

[ArGee]

Men cannot choose to terminate the baby like the women but we should be able to terminate support. it is only fair.

To be truely "fair" it would have to work like this.

At any time while it would be legal for the mother to obtain an abortion a father can file for a "male abortion." This filing in court (should cost about as much as an abortion) denies all rights and privileges of fatherhood as well as all responsibilities. It makes the child "dead" as far as the father is concerned. Legally, all he's done is kill his unborn child, which is far nicer to the child than simply refusing to support it financially. I say this because women are celebrated for killing their children, while men are demonized if they allow their children to live but refuse to support them financially.

But if we really did that, then the power game would be over. You presumed that I thought abortion was about women exercising power over their bodies. It's really about men exercising power over women. While abortion was illegal or difficult to obtain, women could use the possibility of pregnancy to assert their power over when and whether to have sex. With the advent of effective birth control, and more importantly the advent of abortion as birth control, men can force women back into the role of sexual plaything. Thats what the men want, and that's why they work so hard to keep abortion legal. They also continue the charade that abortion empowers women.

Why women fall for that is beyond me.

Shalom.

[Aquinasfan]

I thought you were a pro-abort. If not, my apologies.

[Aquinasfan]

Who ever said Catholics had a problem with sex? Between Humanae Vitae and JPII encyclical on love and marriage (name escapes me), I think we're the "progressives" here.

That attitude is ironic for many reasons, but especially because celibate men supposedly cannot understand marriage.

[ArGee]

And what does God have to say about it? Should not God's will be sought first?

My, my, you have been falling behind in your news reading.

Much of the left coast is no longer "Under G-d" by ruling of some court which, as we all know, is a higher power than G-d anyway.

Shalom.

[Notwithstanding]

"Familiaris Consortio" is an apostolic letter (not encyclical) about family love and touches on this.

But his series of wednesday papal audience catechetical teachings known as his "theology of the body" is amazing - and it discusses the subject of sexual intimacy in marriage. It is amazing to read the words of this celibate man and realize how perfectly they apply to your own married life.

[Notwithstanding]

You said it!

To those who realize God gave us the gift of sexuality and we are stewards of it and cannot abuse it selfishly - they will gladly see how very progressive the Church has been for centuries.

To those who think sex is all about extreme physical recreational pleasure AT WILL with no limits - well they will always see any limits as an impediment to fun and pleasure.