FRANCE - Some Famous Quotes

"Dismantled freedom?"

Yes, dismantled freedom and democracy.
Weimar was a Republic, one they couldnt keep thanks to Adolf Hitler and his clique. It doesnt matter that other fools didnt know what Hitler was up to or didnt care and helped him get to power, once *in* power, Hitler constructed a totalitarian dictatorship equal in its societal control to Stalin's Soviet Union. Who who helped him were complicit or "useful idiots" of the same kinds as the leftists who aid and abet Communist revolutionaries.

"The Night of the Long Knives was Hitler's price for power and the political powers went along with it. "

Grrr. YOu engage in the same kind of moral equivalence as the Liberals! This was not a 'price for power' this was a political purge and violent one at that! You leave *out* that of course those who opposed Hitler were *murdured* and *jailed* before during and after this particular purge, btho those opposing him openly and those who helped Hitler but were no longer needed were then murdered (brown shirts/SA by the SS) and the remainder of the intelligensia ended up in labor and concentration camps like Dachau and Buchenwald.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERnight.htm

No different from the fate of the Baathists marched out of the room by Saddam when he took over; no different from the various opponents of Lenin and later Stalin who were murdered, put into show trials, sent to labor camps. Hitler removing Roehm was like Stalin removing Trotsky.

BTW, calling the Nationalist Socialist Worker Party (Nazi party) 'moderate' is wrong, when they were an extremist party that came to power only due to the extreme economic depression of the early 1930s, and Hitler's willingness to lie to any one group about what he was for. Anything to gain power.

"On 23rd March, 1933, all members of the DNVP in the Reichstag voted for the Enabling Bill which gave Hitler dictatorial powers."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERenabling.htm

"Soon afterwards the Communist Party and the Social Democrat Party were banned. Party activists still in the country were arrested. A month later Hitler announced that the Catholic Centre Party, the Nationalist Party and all other political parties other than the NSDAP were illegal, and by the end of 1933 over 150,000 political prisoners were in concentration camps. Hitler was aware that people have a great fear of the unknown, and if prisoners were released, they were warned that if they told anyone of their experiences they would be sent back to the camp."

YES - HITLER DISMANTLED GERMAN FREEDOM IN 1933 AND 1934.

Here's France's military record: (from this article.)

Gallic Wars: The French not only lost … they lost to an Italian.
Hundred Years’ War: Although they kinda/sorta mostly lost, they were saved by Joan of Arc (a female schizophrenic), who by accident created the First Rule of French Warfare: "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."
Italian Wars: France became the first and only country in history to lose not just one but TWO wars against Italians.
Wars of Religion: France was 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.
Thirty Years’ War: Although not technically a principal, they did manage to get invaded anyway. Amusingly, they claim a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring them.
War of Devolution: Tied.
Dutch War: Tied.
War of the Augsburg League: Lost, claimed tie.
King William's War: Lost, claimed tie.
French and Indian War: Lost, claimed tie.
Three ties in a row caused some deluded folks to label the period as the height of French military power.
War of the Spanish Succession: Lost.
American In a Scribean foreshadow of the future, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw way more action.
This is eventually known as "de Gaulle Syndrome."
It also establishes the Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."
French Revolution: Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.
Napoleonic Wars: Lost.
Franco-Prussian War: Lost.
World War I: Tied and on the way to losing. France was saved by the United States.
World War II: Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain.
War in Indochina: Lost.
Algerian Rebellion: Lost. The first defeat of a Western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades. It gave birth to the First Rule of Muslim Warfare: "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of Italian, Russian, German, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux Warfare.
War on Terrorism: France has surrendered to Germans and Muslims just to be safe.

"Stalin controlled the means of production; industry remained private in Hitler's Germany."

Wow. You respond to historical facts with a non sequitor like that!?! Never mind that industry was highly regulated, controlled by Govt functionaries, and ownership was forced into the hands of nazi party members; never mind that by WWII timeframe german industry was controlled by Albert Speer in a manner that would be the envy of Stalin's 5-year-plan bureaecrats. You simply ignore the fact that Nazis stuffed the concentration camps full of political prisoners and destroyed every political party except the nazi party, controlled the press, destroyed dissent, gave dictatorial powers to Hitler, etc. That is destroying freedom!

You say: "simplcity of your Communist propaganda " I say: your own view is the simplistic one. Quite shallow of you to characterize distateful but accurate history of Nazis as propaganda. As I detest Communism, I find your insinuation laughable.

Stalin and Hitler were both evil dictators, more similar than dissimilar. both sent millions to their deaths in concentration camps, both destroyed lives, freedom and created totalitarian states. The ideology of nazism and communism became similar in its ultimate application and effect. The root evil was collectivism and a willingness to destroy human freedom and political diversity. Shedding light on Nazi history illuminates Communist history and ideology. Several authors have made the link, and indeed F. A. Hayek with his "Road to serfdom" tied polical freedom to economic freedom. It is simply a lie to claim that Nazi Germany had any real measure of freedom, economic or political.

As for " I think you are out of your league." Once again, your arrogance exceeds your understanding.

1943-45, there was complete state control of German industry by the state, but that is hardly the time period we are talking about.

So freedom is the right to vote for different people? Jacobist liberalism at a Conservative website? How humorous.

How were German anti-Jewish laws different then say Poland in the 1920-1936 period? Were they more or less restrictive? During Churchill's brief period as an over anti-Semite, was he advocating a position to the left or right of Nazi doctrine? Were anti-Semitic laws in Germany more restrictive or less restrictive than Jim Crow laws in the South? Was the German economy 'freerer' in 1938 or 1908?

Why did Japan attack Pearl Harbor rather than invade Siberia to aid Germany?

No, Hitler and his gang of criminals were simply anti-Christian central-planners. Hitler handled the Danzig question so poorly, he started a world war when just a little more scheming would have averted the crisis and turned world attention towards the Eastern menace of Stalinism that had infiltrated just about every government, trade union, and intellectual circle in the Western World, save one, the fascists who had thrown them all in jail, murdered, or forced them to emigrate.

It was a complicated time period, bungled by the Conservative and liberal statesmen of the West, to the advantage of Stalin's Moscow centric criminal empire.

Hayek, using Enlightment Era definitions of liberty-- ones I cling too but apparently not you-- was correct but the central thesis was that the British and Americans were on a similar path.

When so called 'Conservatives' are arguing that freedom is the ability to vote, then we are certainly in end times.

Hayek, using Enlightment Era definitions of liberty-- ones I cling too but apparently not you-- The rest of your post belies this ... It is not merely the right to vote, but that lack of basic political freedom is not unimportant. I pointed out that within a year of gaining power, Hitler had OUTLAWED all other parties and had put 150,000 political prisoners in concentration camps. And that is just the tip of the iceberg wrt their total control on the state, media, industry, etc. The simplest rejoinder to your various questions: Which other countries were doing *that*? NONE! Except for the Communist tyranny of Stalin.

Hayek himself was a classical Liberal, as are most modern US Conservatives. I guess that is why this site is "Free Republic" and not "Kingdom of God".

From a review of Hayek's Road to Serfdom: "Hayek's thesis, that Nazism and Communism are both off shoots of socialism and both immoral and inhumanly destructive systems, has been proven true with the passage of time. "

In comparing Communism and Nazism as twin ideologies, I was simply restating the Hayek thesis. You are free to argue against it, but dont be so foolish as to attack the very viewpoint you claim to support.

From another review: Most of Hayeks writing was in economics but it is for this political work that he is remembered. It was published in 1944 at a time when "scientific socialism" was very much the fashion. War time central planning was seen as extending into peacetime and the view was bolstered by the spectacular success of the communist centrally controlled U.S.S.R. in the defeat of Germany. Society was seen as a giant perfectly designed machine that had to resist loosness ( i.e. free enterprise) in its moving parts (people).

... Hayek was a lone voice opposing this view. ... He traces the fragile growth of personal liberty and democracy out of the ground of feudalism and draws a parallel between the new central planners and the old autocrats. They both desire all the power and are both fundamentally anti-democratic.

He quotes de Toqueville,"Domocracy and Socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." In this respect he draws strong parallels between fascism and socialism. Their violent conflict was not seen as a war between rival ideologies but rather a fight for power between two anti-democratic systems. He quotes Eduard Heimann,"But one fact stands out with perfect clarity from all the fog:Hitler has never claimed to represent true liberalism. Liberalism has the distinction of being the doctrine most hated by Hitler", ... However, in a real life experiment from the 1940's onwards we have seen the superiority of free markets vs.central planning. Hayek is only following Adam Smith in pointing out that free competition is a superior method of coordinating individual effort. http://www1.dragonet.es/users/markbcki/hayek.htm

"Why did Japan attack Pearl Harbor rather than invade Siberia to aid Germany?" You claim to be knoweldgable about history and really are that clueless? Japan needed the Dutch East Indies oil; they needed the Phillipines to secure the supply line. They thought a knock-out blow in Pearl Harbor would set the US back so much we'd be unable to repond. The Axis powers had signed an alliance, which is why Germany declared war on the US once we declared war on Japan.

For those of us who have a better than 101 level of history, you have revealed yourself.

Hayek gave no credit to nationalism and later in life, insisted on a reverse Communism. He is one of my favorites, for like Ayn Rand-- who created one of the great fictional anti-heroes in American literature, John Galt-- is still a classical liberal, i.e. he's not a conservative, except by the standards of the neo-cons.

I believe that this country had a healthy political debate between liberals, whom I still count myself with as a conservative libertarian, and conservatives of the Taftian kind. The Trotskyites, Wilsonian neo-cons, and Rockefeller Republicans dis not call themselves conservatives until the neo-cons decide to co-opt the political identity; they are running the show right now, and while they may call themselves conservatives, as you probably call yourself as well, the word ceases to have any meaning.

I note that in the Franco Prussian War, and World War I the German army came from the northeast of France and still the heaviest fortifications were concentrated in the Maginot line.

In fact the Maginot Line, as originally planned, was supposed to extend all the way to the coast. However, the French did not count on having their allies stab them in the back (sound familiar?). In this case, Belguim objected the line being built behind them, and threatened to throw in with the Germans if the Line was extended.

All right, said the French, we'll move the line east, let it protect the Benelux countries as well.

No doing. Belgium cherished its status as a neutral country and didn't want to be seen as against Germany.

At this point, the French surrendered to the Belgians and stopped building the line, when what they should have done was throw Belgium to the Germans and build the line anyway.

Fast forward to the phony war. The French and British armies are massed on the Belgian border, acutely aware that they have built half a wall. Belgium refuses to let them through to Germany; they can't go through unless (until, to everyone except the Belgians) the Germans do. Eventually, the Germans cross into Belgium, followed by the French and British from the other side.

The Germans, who can read a map as well as anyone else, send another colomn up from the south through the area where the Maginot line isn't, and cut off the Allies, forcing the Dunkirk evacuation for the British, and leaving France wide open and unprotected by its army.

Bottom line, the French didn't just "forget" to build the rest of the Line, it was sabotaged by stupidity, not all of it their own.

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