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EFFORTS TO EASE GUN LAWS GAIN FAVOR
Chicago Tribune. Com ^ | 3/16/2003 | Tim Jones

Posted on 03/16/2003 11:55:17 AM PST by KeyLargo

By Tim Jones Tribune national correspondent

March 16, 2003

Gun-rights advocates in several states are gaining in their efforts to liberalize firearm possession laws as public support for stronger gun-control regulation wavers.

Illinois has maintained a ban on carrying concealed weapons since the 1960s, but legislatures in Missouri, Ohio, Minnesota and other states are poised to approve bills making it easier for people to carry guns in public.

The reasons behind this move speak to the complex nature of politics and guns in a post-Sept. 11 America. Ferocious debates have divided legislatures, police organizations and the academic community. Members of those groups argue the polar claims that arming citizens would make people safer or that more guns would produce more crime.

Disputed research over right-to-carry laws is at the heart of the battle. A book by former University of Chicago professor John Lott asserting that liberalized gun ownership laws have helped reduce crime was challenged recently by Stanford University law professor John Donohue, who argues that such laws may increase crime.

Fears abate of Dodge City

In the meantime, dire visions of Dodge City-caliber mayhem that were forecast two years ago by critics of Michigan's new concealed-gun law haven't materialized, according to Michigan State Police.

Although the National Rifle Association-sponsored move to liberalize state gun ownership laws predates the 2001 terrorist attacks, public concern about homeland security seems to have aided the gun lobby's efforts and fanned the political flames of controversy.

In Missouri, where voters in 1999 defeated a ballot proposal allowing people the right to carry concealed weapons, the state House this month approved a measure similar to the one voters rejected. Democratic Gov. Bob Holden has vowed to veto the bill, which is before the Senate.

"The people have already spoken," said Mary Still, Holden's press secretary. "The governor does not think this would take the state in the right direction, and it would not make society safer."

Members of the Ohio House last week passed by a wide margin a bill that would give Ohioans the right to carry guns in their purses, jackets, cars and elsewhere. The Ohio Highway Patrol and police chiefs oppose the measure, and Republican Gov. Bob Taft is expected to veto the bill if it reaches his desk in its current form.

The debate in Ohio is complicated by two court rulings that declared unconstitutional the state's long-standing ban on carrying a concealed weapon. The state Supreme Court is scheduled to hear arguments on the matter next month, and the legislature is scrambling to fill a potential legal void.

Minnesota bill advances

Meanwhile, Minnesota lawmakers, with the endorsement of Republican Gov. Tim Pawlenty, are expected to clear the way for Minnesotans to carry handguns. Police organizations oppose the measure.

Former Gov. Jesse Ventura, who left office Jan. 1, added to the right-to-carry momentum by obtaining a permit to have a concealed gun.

Though the bills vary from state to state, all have language that would allow law-abiding, mentally competent adults who pass background checks and undergo firearms training to obtain permits to carry concealed weapons.

Thirty-three states have adopted such laws, many of them in the past decade.

Six states--Illinois, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Ohio and Wisconsin--prohibit carrying concealed weapons.

The remaining states allow concealed weapons, but only after local officials have approved an individual's application. In these states, people have to prove they need to carry a gun.

Some measurements of public sentiment suggest a groundswell of support for relaxing gun ownership regulations.

A Gallup Poll in late 1990 showed that 78 percent of respondents said gun sale laws should be stricter. That percentage has dropped each year, falling to 51 percent in January.

Some gun control backed

The University of Chicago's General Social Survey in 2001 found strong majority support for specific measures to regulate firearms, promote firearm safety and prevent criminals from obtaining guns.

A little more than half of respondents--52 percent--said they favored allowing concealed-carry permits, but only for those with special needs, such as private detectives. The public, the survey said, was evenly divided at 44 percent on whether right-to-carry laws would make society less or more safe.

"I think there is a very slight weakening for gun control measures," said Tom Smith, director of the General Social Survey, adding that he believes the terrorist attacks of 2001 have done little to change the public's fundamental attitudes toward guns.

Even though gun sales nationwide shot up in the two months after the Sept. 11 attacks, Smith said, they have returned to their normal pattern.

"It's not my sense that attitudes have changed since 9/11," said Karlyn Bowman, a resident fellow who studies polling at the American Enterprise Institute. But there is evidence, Bowman said, that people want to be able to own guns for personal reasons.

Supporters of right-to-carry laws hold up Lott's research, arguing that guns protect people against lawbreakers. Opponents warn of societal mayhem and claim the effort is little more than a NRA-sanctioned effort to bolster sagging gun sales.

Politicians are divided in ways that often reflect the urban and rural compositions of legislatures.

When Missouri voters defeated the right-to-carry proposal in 1999, only 10 of the state's 110 counties rejected it. However, those were the most-populous counties and those votes helped create the 52 percent to 48 percent rejection of the measure.

The St. Louis Post Dispatch, representing Missouri's largest city, ridiculed supporters of the right-to-carry bill in a recent editorial.

"It's preposterous for a lawmaker to imply that a concealed-carry law would have made Americans safer on Sept. 11, or now," the editorial read.

"Missourians have had this duel before. . . . That should have settled the matter."

Effects debated

The effect of relaxing gun ownership regulations is being studied and disputed.

In Michigan, where critics warned that up to 200,000 people might apply for gun permits in the first year, about 71,000 people have sought permits since July 2001. Michigan's violent crime rate dropped slightly last year, but state police officials do not attribute the decline to gun ownership.

"There really aren't any significant issues that have come to light in terms of road rage or people pulling out their guns in a dispute," said Lt. Kari Kusmierz of the Michigan State Police. "But we can't draw any conclusions about the law's impact."

Nor can officials determine whether the 71,000 permits issued since 2001 represent a net increase in gun ownership in Michigan.

Some applicants, they acknowledged, may have already owned guns illegally and obtained permits to satisfy the law.

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


TOPICS: Announcements; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol
"Some applicants, they acknowledged, may have already owned guns illegally and obtained permits to satisfy the law."

Typical of a reporter's view that anyone owning a firearm must of course be doing it illegaly. The last time that I checked Michigan residents don't need anyone's permission to own a firearm although the libs would like it to be otherwise.

1 posted on 03/16/2003 11:55:17 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo
The remaining states allow concealed weapons, but only after local officials have approved an individual's application. In these states, people have to prove they need to carry a gun.

This is also a lie.

2 posted on 03/16/2003 12:03:42 PM PST by patton (ignorant liberals piss me off to no end)
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To: *bang_list
(+)
3 posted on 03/16/2003 12:04:14 PM PST by patton (ignorant liberals piss me off to no end)
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To: KeyLargo
"Disputed research over right to carry laws is at the heart of the battle. A book by former University of Chicago professor John Lott asserting that liberalized gun ownership laws have helped reduce crime was challenged recently by Stanford University law professor John Donohue, who argues that such laws may increase crime."

That statement is pitting Donohue's opinion against Lott's research. Do the research, then get back with us.
4 posted on 03/16/2003 12:09:40 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian (Okie by proxy, raised by Yankees, temporarily Californian)
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To: KeyLargo
Not sure I like the use of the term “liberalize” to describe the restoration of a basic freedom. Unfortunately, “to liberalize” something has come to mean “to restrict or take away” freedom.
5 posted on 03/16/2003 12:15:46 PM PST by InABunkerUnderSF
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To: KeyLargo
Thirty-three states have adopted such laws, many of them in the past decade.

Six states--Illinois, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Ohio and Wisconsin--prohibit carrying concealed weapons.

The remaining states allow concealed weapons, but only after local officials have approved an individual's application. In these states, people have to prove they need to carry a gun.

However the above statement is totally incorrect.

I commend the Chicago Tribune By Tim Jones Tribune national correspondentfor posting a "somewhat" accurate article.

The fact is "Shall issue" permit covers the majority of the states and must be issued if they pass a felony background check.

Two types of Concealed Carry Weapon (CCW) exist. Shall Issue and May Issue.

The Shall issue permit states must issue a CCW Permit if the applicatant passes the felony check no questions asked.

The May issue permit states like New York State may be issued after proof of need. Only politicans, people of power get CCW permits.

The majority of states have Shall Issue.

My personal agenda has been to change the CCW (Conceal) language to Citizen Carry.




6 posted on 03/16/2003 1:34:40 PM PST by CHICAGOFARMER (Citizen Carry)
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
Illinois, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Ohio and Wisconsin

And Wisconsin will have a bill introduced before yearend to allow citizens to carry concealed weapons.

That will leave Illinois, Kansas, and Nebraska as the only States where armed robbery will increase.

(All our criminals is YOURS, now...)

7 posted on 03/16/2003 7:11:31 PM PST by ninenot
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To: CHICAGOFARMER
My personal agenda has been to change the CCW (Conceal) language to Citizen Carry.

Bump that.

8 posted on 03/16/2003 7:15:38 PM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: ninenot
Thanks, just make sure you put a couple of holes in them before ya send 'em over. : )
9 posted on 03/16/2003 7:21:01 PM PST by cavtrooper21 ("..he's not heavy, sir. He's my brother...")
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: marujo
I remember when California had a three day waiting period, they said at the time that it would never go higher. More lies from the left.
11 posted on 03/16/2003 10:10:56 PM PST by reloader (Shooting- The only sport endorsed by the Founding Fathers.)
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To: ninenot
Wisconsins Supreme court well have a ruling on Wis CCW law in June some time. If they rule with the constitution Wis well be like Vermont.
12 posted on 03/17/2003 3:43:21 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: riverrunner
It will be interesting, all right. Similar to the Ohio case now going to the Supremes of Ohio. Too bad the person who filed the suit is a perpetrator...
13 posted on 03/17/2003 6:47:37 AM PST by ninenot
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