[JohnHuang2]

Tuesday, March 18, 2003

Quote of the Day by small voice in the wilderness

[Mad Dawgg]

"David Hackworth believes most Americans too disconnected from war"

In a related story: Most Americans consider David Hackworth a bloated sack of fecal matter and don't give an airborne rodents rectum what he says.

Developing...

[libertylover]

Is this war really necessary? What national security threat does Iraq pose to the United States?

Yes, because Saddam would deal any day of the week with terrorists willing to bring WMD to the US.

Why can't we – with a united world behind us – disarm Iraq without war?

Because most of the UN have two things in common: 1) They hate the US and 2) they're just there for the handouts.

Why the unilateral intervention?

Because the UN is a bunch of wimps who won't stand behind their own resolutions.

What are the projected costs and casualties, and is there an exit plan?

Costs will be high, but cheaper than waiting for terrorists to detonate a nuclear weapon in say, Houston.

[wastoute]

Maybe it will help to understand this, if you don't...Hackworth has always been a Democrat. Read his books, if you don't believe me, his own words, not mine.

[bvw]

The Democrats in Congress have also been trying to bring back the draft -- for this reason too. They have others too.

• This theorized slackening of the national will to go to War. (Of course, in instant case, since we didn't start with a draft and that social mindset, it would seem it might have a much greater efect to stop any war if anacted now. I disagree, it would have some effect, an aggravation and devisive effect, but it would NOT be the mass rising against this war Hack and the Dems think. This is a WAR that has to be fought and We the People know it.)

• Creating a new class of Federal Employees, and later "Veterans" who in history have usually acted.as one of the strongest federal "entitlement" groups.

• Creating a new class of Victims. That is, the widows and orphans -- or even the families with soldiers in the srevice. (This last one I heard first time last night. The female congresscritter seemed positively bouyant and joyful at the prospect! Sick.)

The DemocRATs have discovered the "social" side of the Military budget I am afraid. It was clear that FDR and crew had also done so three generations ago, but those lessons had been forgotten and eliminated during Viet Nam and the scornful generation.

[dennisw]

Take off that tutleneck Hack. It's cutting off blood to your brain. Your maverick opinions on war and fighting are no longer cute. There are plenty of lefties who will be happy to adopt you as their spokeman on military matters.

In a way Hack is covering himself like the RATS in Congress. He gets to say *I told you so* if the war and occupation gets difficult. And if there are no glitches his remarks get forgotten. In 1991 Gulf War he predicted thousands of American deaths.

[dennisw]

• What national security threat does Iraq pose to the United States?

  Handoff of WMD to Al Qaeda and other Jihadists. Gets to call the shots in the Middle East unless we take him out. Saddam is the weakest link amongst our Islamic enemies so we get rid of him first. 
  

• Why can't we – with a united world behind us – disarm Iraq without war?
  
  Saddam only disarms when we have 200,000 troops in the desert. And we aren't going to keep 200,000 troops in the desert for years on end while Saddam dances around with Blix, Annan and the UN. Screw that!!

 

[KeyWest]

Nothing new here that has not been said before and dismissed. If you want body bags, bring back the draft. There is no way that the US is going to put the money into training a draftee compared to a volunteer. So the draftee will receive little training and end up on the short end of the stick. In any team, you are only as strong as your weakest member, and draftees will only drag the force down.

The greater problem is the lack of military experience in the political class. Now if, as a requirement of office, every politician had to go through boot camp...

[xzins]

What's happened to Hack?

Draftees might not be a bad idea, but the whole notion that Iraq poses no threat, and the wholescale avoidance of the fact that we were attacked on 9/11 make me wonder if Hack isn't going a bit senile.

[Spandau]

a disproportionate number from the poor and from minority groups

Pentagon says most front-line fighters are white, working class

03/11/2003

By ARNOLD HAMILTON / The Dallas Morning News

As a medic in Vietnam, John Butler never gave thought to the race of wounded and dying soldiers he served. As a graduate student, though, he became fascinated with the popular notion that blacks are overrepresented in the military's front lines.

"It never has been true," said Dr. Butler, 55, one of the first black students at Louisiana State University and now a sociology professor at the University of Texas at Austin. "Except maybe with the Buffalo Soldiers who escorted covered wagons into the [19th century] West."

Indeed, as the nation stands on the brink of war in the Middle East, Pentagon figures show that troops most likely to face combat – and death – in Iraq are disproportionately white, and typically working class.

In the Army, nearly three-fourths of the enlisted infantry are white. In the Air Force and Navy, fewer than 3 percent of pilots are black. And experts say the military's special forces units are overwhelmingly white. The disparity is especially intriguing to analysts, and troubling to military officials, because blacks make up about 12 percent of the population and 20 percent of active-duty military but are underrepresented in front-line troops.

The experts agree on one point: Black troops' job choices in no way imply that blacks are any less courageous or patriotic than their white counterparts. Indeed, they said, military service long has been viewed among many blacks as a bold statement of love of country.

Just what led high percentages of black volunteers to migrate to such noncombat tasks as administration, logistics and communication, at the same time white enlistees steered in greater numbers toward high-risk positions, isn't easily answered, analysts say.

Some suggest that many white volunteers sign up for ground combat units because of cash bonuses and as a shorter-term way to earn GI benefits for college. Others theorize that blacks tend to view the military more as a place where skills can be learned and experience gained for a second career later in the private sector.

What is certain is that America's military – including the 300,000 or so amassed in the Middle East – tends to be made up of the nation's socioeconomic middle, experts say. Not the upper one-fourth, typically destined not only for college but also in many cases graduate school. Nor the bottom quarter, where lower educational levels, criminal records and physical or mental problems seem more prevalent.

"They [America's troops] are going to look more like the college-bound youth than the one working at McDonald's," said James Burk, a political sociologist at Texas A&M University.

"We can think about the military as a bridging institution from wherever you are, bridging to a better place in America for economic mobility but also for educational mobility."

In January, a senior defense official conceded that military demographics don't mirror society when it comes to ethnicity, noting concerns that Hispanics are underrepresented in all branches but the Marines. But he also hailed the diversity achieved in the 30 years since the all-volunteer force was instituted.

"We all want a force that, roughly speaking, looks like America, and by and large that's what we have [today]," said the official, who briefed reporters on the condition he not be named. "It's a great force, it performs very well, it's the envy of the world."

Convention challenged

The statistics counter a decades-old convention – that blacks are disproportionately assigned to the front lines – that still pervades American politics. "I thought we had disabused that myth," said Charles Moskos, a Northwestern University military sociologist who co-authored with Dr. Butler the book All That We Can Be: Black Leadership and Racial Integration the Army Way. "But it never did go away."

The misconception remains, military analysts say, because early in the Vietnam War, blacks were dying at a disproportionately high rate, creating – as the Moskos-Butler book noted – the impression among many Americans that blacks "have been used by their country as cannon fodder."

But at war's end, blacks accounted for 12.1 percent of all Americans who died in Southeast Asia – a figure that almost mirrored their percentage in the U.S. population.

Questions about the makeup of the troops were raised last fall in Texas' Senate race when former Dallas Mayor Ron Kirk said American fighting forces in Iraq would be "disproportionately minority."

More recently, Rep. Charles Rangel, a Korean War veteran, proposed reinstating the draft, contending "the burden of military service was being borne disproportionately by members of disadvantaged groups."

The New York Democrat said he believed Congress would be more cautious in its approach to war if a broader cross section of the nation's sons and daughters were at risk.

Cultural variations

Overall, minorities make up just under 25 percent of the American population – but nearly 35 percent of the nation's enlisted military force. Military experts say the number of Hispanics in the military is increasing, but the figure is less than 8 percent. Some say blacks may be drawn to administration, logistics and communication because of tradition – often the duties their fathers or other relatives carried out in the military.

Most important, though, blacks may pursue such jobs out of a sense of economic necessity. Since the all-volunteer military commenced, black unemployment often has been double the rate for whites.

As a result, experts say, blacks have pursued tasks designed to provide skills and experience that can be transferred later to the civilian workforce.

The numbers reflect such a strategy: A recent Pentagon report said blacks account for 36 percent of functional support and administration and 27 percent of medical and dental career fields.

"This is, after all, what an all-volunteer military is about," the report stated. "Volunteers making choices to join and remain in the military, and to select certain occupations, including those associated with combat or those that provide skills more readily transferable to the private section."

Military analysts and Pentagon officials note, however, that all American forces – whether in front-line combat or support – are just as likely to be targeted these days by terrorists or anti-American activists.

http://www.dallasnews.com/dmn/news/stories/031103dntextroops.24eb4.html

[garyhope]

Yep, Hack is right. I think we should wait until the first Islamo-fascist nuke goes off in NYC and Wash. DC just to be sure. We wouldn't want to upset or hurt anyones "feelings" would we?

Do I need a "sarcasm" alert here?

[Robert DeLong]

David Hackworth is rapidly losing credibility. I agreed with him totally concerning Kosovo, but he is way of base on Iraq.

[BlueLancer]

Poor Hack ... dead, but won't lay down.

His military thinking has never progressed beyond his knowledge of Vietnam. In his mind, we're always in the depths of the jungle, unwilling soldiers led by unqualified officers for an ungrateful country. I never want to go back trying to herd unwilling draftees around, attempting to find a way to motivate someone who doesn't want to be there and is making it as hard as he can on his sergeants and officers to get the mission accomplished.

I would rather trust Napoleon's Maxims of Combat or the readings of Tacitus before I'd listen to Hackworth and his opinions of military science. He's beginning to sound like the lunatic senile aunt you keep locked in the attic because she doesn't understand and can't survive in the real, modern world.

[CatoRenasci]

Hackworth was a very brave soldier, and as a voice of the grunts during the Clinton era of disrespect and neglect, he was very important for the country.

He fails to understand, however, that the draft is only important when you need a levee en masse, a huge army to fight a war of nations against an adversary who is similarly organized. The classic examples are the Napoleonic wars, the Franco-Prussian War, the first and second World Wars.

For wars on the periphery of civilization -- which surely the Middle East and Southwest Asia are -- you need professional troops, as we have today.

I think Hackworth is right, that there is not enough of a social and economic cross section of the country in the military today, but I would solve that by making voting or other privileges available only to veterans, rather than coercing everyone to serve when they are not needed.

[steve-b]

a disproportionate number from the poor and from minority groups

This claim has been shot down so often and so thoroughly that anyone who still repeats it now should be dismissed as a liar.

[TominPA]

Hack use to speak with his heart and mind, now he speaks with his a$$. The draft is NOT the answer. Going into combat I want the guy next to me to be as motivated to fight, survive, and win as I am. I want their skills at least as good as mine if not better. We, as a unit, have to belive in what we are doing and WANT to be there. Give me professional soldiers who are doing what they want to do and belive in, guys who will watch each others back, in whom you know you can count on when things get hairy. Let "draftees" load the ships or whatever but keep them out of my unit.

Just my opinion, but after 24 years in uniform perhaps I have a slight understanding of the issue.

[FreePaul]

I remember some wars fought by draftees. They were supported by most Americans. Hackworth needs to study history instead of trying to manufacture it. I thought the he was OK when he first started talking in public. The more he opens his mouth the more he convinces me that he talks only to get his name in print.

[Gritty]

We haven't seen Hack around for a while.

No doubt we'll see him featured at the next A.N.S.W.E.R rally!

[jordan8]

Reading an interesting book - After Tet: The Bloodiest Year in Vietnam. I don't have it at hand but it discussed the draft during the Vietnam era and made the point that the Army was already considering eliminating the draft in 1964, because there were far too many young men turning 18. There were about 1.1 million males who turned 18 in 1958. That figure rose to 1.7 million by '67, and to 2 million by the early '70's. This was far more than was needed before Vietnam so the Army responded by raising the enlistment standards and loosening the draft deferment standards. They drafted 120,000 in 1965 (the last year of "peace" in that era) and had plans to increase the draft by only 15,000 the next year, that is to 135,000 in '66 (Vietnam saw these figures more than double to 300-350,000. And it should be kept in mind that many enlisted rather than be drafted thus lessening the number needed for the draft). In the late 50's about 88% of those men who passed the physical and mental requirements for military service served in the military, but that figure had dropped by the mid-sixties to 65% for reasons stated above. If a draft were started today the figure would be at least 3.5 to 4 million for males turning 18 and doubled if females were included (which would be inevitable in this barbaric era). 8 million people drafted every year, what would they do with them all?

[EveningStar]

Most recruits in the AVF come from non-vocal, working-class families – a disproportionate number from the poor and from minority groups – while more privileged Americans are conspicuous by their absence. For example, the Congress that voted overwhelmingly for the military solution against Iraq includes only one member with a son who's an enlisted grunt. The rest, like the majority of Americans since the draft went south, no longer share directly in the sacrifice that comes with sending our youth to face the dragon.

The poor join up because the job prospects on the outside are marginal. By going into the military, they learn a skill, gain the benefits of the GI Bill and get a better shot at the American dream.

Meanwhile, teens from families with political punch – read: cash and /or clout – are safely bunkered down at universities out of harm's way. And when asked: "Should we 'do' Iraq?" their answer is often a roaring "Yes!" But ask those same young aristo-hawks: "Will you go and fight?" and rarely does a Tommy Hilfiger-clad arm shoot up. When it comes to blood sports, they don't need to be taught that the spectators have it cushier than the gladiators.

Just as if all Americans knew their kids would likely serve dead-center on the killing fields, there'd be far sharper focus on how our politicians are voting and a lot more calls for caution and careful consideration before we got out there in the sand and slapped leather. For sure, the draft would give us 20/20 vigilance.

Here we go with the class envy crap. Hack and Michael Moore - together.