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Unpatriotic Conservatives
National Review Online ^ | 4/7/03 (advance) | David Frum

Posted on 03/19/2003 7:57:38 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine

"I respect and admire the French, who have been a far greater nation than we shall ever be, that is, if greatness means anything loftier than money and bombs."
— THOMAS FLEMING, "HARD RIGHT," MARCH 13, 2003

rom the very beginning of the War on Terror, there has been dissent, and as the war has proceeded to Iraq, the dissent has grown more radical and more vociferous. Perhaps that was to be expected. But here is what never could have been: Some of the leading figures in this antiwar movement call themselves "conservatives."

These conservatives are relatively few in number, but their ambitions are large. They aspire to reinvent conservative ideology: to junk the 50-year-old conservative commitment to defend American interests and values throughout the world — the commitment that inspired the founding of this magazine — in favor of a fearful policy of ignoring threats and appeasing enemies.

And they are exerting influence. When Richard Perle appeared on Meet the Press on February 23 of this year, Tim Russert asked him, "Can you assure American viewers . . . that we're in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?" Perle rebutted the allegation. But what a grand victory for the antiwar conservatives that Russert felt he had to air it.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: davidfrum; frum; oldcons; paleocons; pitchforkpat
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
The only comment I can make is "F***in' A, Bubba!"
21 posted on 03/19/2003 8:19:59 AM PST by Poohbah (Beware the fury of a patient man -- John Dryden)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
This is a good article, but the author used some pretty poor examples of "anti-American" sentiment among these people.

In his column of December 26, 2002, Robert Novak attacked Condoleezza Rice for citing Hezbollah, instead of al-Qaeda, as the world's most dangerous terrorist organization: "In truth, Hezbollah is the world's most dangerous terrorist organization from Israel's standpoint. While viciously anti-American in rhetoric, the Lebanon-based Hezbollah is focused on the destruction of Israel. 'Outside this fight [against Israel], we have done nothing,' Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, the organization's secretary-general, said in a recent New York Times interview." The sheik did not say, and Novak did not bother to add, that Hezbollah twice bombed the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, murdering more than 60 people, and drove a suicide bomb into a Marine barracks in October 1983, killing 241 servicemen.

I think Novak was right on target for attacking Condoleeza Rice on this one. In fact, the Beirut incidents were one of the few cases in which the Reagan administration can rightly be criticized for its approach to a foreign policy matter.

I posted many concerns about the "war in Afghanistan" here on FreeRepublic, but not because I believed the U.S. efforts there would be futile. It simply made no sense to me (and still does not to this day) to have the U.S. wage war in a foreign nation after 9/11 without first (or simultaneously) sacking the bureaucrats throughout the U.S. government who utter incompetence made 9/11 possible in the first place.

Although he had denied any vital American interest in either Kuwait's oilfields or Iraq's oilfields or its aggression, in l991 he urged that the Sixth Fleet be sent to Dubrovnik to shield the Catholics of Croatia from Serbian attack. "Croatia is not some faraway desert emirate," he explained. "It is a 'piece of the continent, a part of the main,' a Western republic that belonged to the Habsburg empire and was for centuries the first line of defense of Christian Europe. For their ceaseless resistance to the Ottoman Turks, Croatia was proclaimed by Pope Leo X to be the 'Antemurale Christianitatis,' the bulwark of Christianity."

This passage itself is deceptive because it is incomplete. While it is true that Buchanan supported U.S. intervention on behalf of Croatia, his rationale was not limited to the religious babbling you see here. It was Buchanan (and nobody else, BTW) who pointed out that Dubrovnik at one time was part of a small city-state on the Adriatic Sea called Raguso, which happened to be one of the first countries in the world to officially recognize the Thirteen Colonies as an independent nation.

22 posted on 03/19/2003 8:21:34 AM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: IowaHawk
Yes, there does seem to be a place where the far left and the far right seem to coalesce. About the only difference between the two groups are in areas like abortion, sexual morality, and religious belief.
23 posted on 03/19/2003 8:21:44 AM PST by Steve_Seattle
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
I am not going to run off on one of your little "show me where I said that" errands

It's quite a good dodge, lie, then deny. LOL

I don't know why you enjoy it,

I enjoy exposing liars. You lied, you got caught, again.

24 posted on 03/19/2003 8:23:12 AM PST by Protagoras
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To: Steve_Seattle
Is it bad that the Founding Fathers distrusted standing armies and entangling alliances?
25 posted on 03/19/2003 8:24:41 AM PST by Sid Rich
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To: All
Anyone who wants to know what I think about the war is welcome to ask. To believe the filthy liar who pinged me to this thread would be to err.

And no, I don't think that anyone should care about my opinions more than anyone elses. I'm just defending against slander.

26 posted on 03/19/2003 8:27:01 AM PST by Protagoras
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To: american spirit
Why is it that when someone like PJB dares to question all this alleged conventional wisdom and refuses to fall in line with other useful media idiots that it somehow translates into negative and destructive?

My thoughts.

As Pat is one of the few honest public figures out there with the backbone to bring attention to the epic invasion of millions of illegals, and the disgraceful, open border time bomb..While our elected leaders stand in stone cold silence, as their own constituents scream for relief, year after year....

27 posted on 03/19/2003 8:28:54 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
This is a good effort from the urban Canadian and he even resisted calling Mssr. Fleming and the entire paleo-conservative cabal anti-Semites. He has clearly matured as a critic.

The question is will you read the full lexicon of our movement so you understand where we are coming from or will you just trust an urban elite intellecutal from Canada who was kicked out of the Bush administration for an act of Hubris?

PS: Frum missed the influence of Murray Rothbard, an urban Jew from New York, on just about all the characters he mentioned. I suggest he try to get a grasp on him and why paleo-libertarians made strange bedfellow with the Buchanan brigades before he concludes what I hope is a serious look at the post-Cold War conservative movement.

28 posted on 03/19/2003 8:31:33 AM PST by JohnGalt
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To: Protagoras
So I suppose that you now support the war effort?
29 posted on 03/19/2003 8:32:08 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (the NCAA is the UN of college athletics - arrogant toward the good, toothless against the bad)
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To: Catspaw
Precisely the issue, along with the whiff of anti-semitism from the paleos.

"Whiff" of anti-semitism? Try "DefCon-6, 6000 hog feedlot power stench".

30 posted on 03/19/2003 8:32:50 AM PST by IowaHawk
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: Steve_Seattle
There's nothing wrong with Reason #4, is there?

As old-line, traditionalist Catholics, they share the Islamic sense that the West is decadent and no longer deserves Divine protection.

I read an interesting article some time ago about the Islamic revolution in Iran. Apparently the U.S. Embassy was the second building the Islamic fundamentalists sacked when they toppled the Shah in 1979 -- the first was the Tehran headquarters of Planned Parenthood.

Not that this fact changes anything in terms of how the U.S. should have dealt with the events in Iran in 1979, but it gives an interesting perspective on how some f these nations must feel whenever they show up at a U.N. conference on women, health care, "families," etc. and find themselves seated across the table from a bunch of ugly, screeching banshees representing the U.S. and other Western countries.

32 posted on 03/19/2003 8:35:05 AM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: Protagoras
Again I ask if you currently support this war effort, as it stands, right now? Its really easy - yes or no.
33 posted on 03/19/2003 8:39:04 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (the NCAA is the UN of college athletics - arrogant toward the good, toothless against the bad)
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: Chancellor Palpatine
Should read "How the NeoCons have turned their backs on Conservatism". Well it is from the NRO, the talking points of the RNC. Don't expect they'd be outing themselves so I won't look for that headline from them, eh Chance?
35 posted on 03/19/2003 8:42:26 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: Protagoras
So be it.

Like I said, your little game is pretty sick.

36 posted on 03/19/2003 8:44:50 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (the NCAA is the UN of college athletics - arrogant toward the good, toothless against the bad)
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To: All
I support the President in this endeavor. I support our troops and I pray for them.

If a person (or a country) points a gun at you, you are within your rights to shoot them.

37 posted on 03/19/2003 8:44:53 AM PST by Protagoras
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To: billbears
I'm surprised that your post didn't go on about how neocons have been ruining America for the entire 227 years of its existence - your hyperbole has been there since the founding of the Republic, you know.
38 posted on 03/19/2003 8:47:21 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (the NCAA is the UN of college athletics - arrogant toward the good, toothless against the bad)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Like I said, your little game is pretty sick.

Funny you should accuse him of this when it was you who baited him to this thread.

39 posted on 03/19/2003 8:49:10 AM PST by Sangamon Kid
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
The truth at last about Pat.

His is a reincarnation of the old isolationist conservatives of the 20s, 30s and 40s. The ones who would rather see America lose WW II than see Rooooosevelt win it.
He is AntiAmerican.

His blather on MSNBC recently about backing the President is too little and 12 years too late.

He is a Fascist and an anti-semite.
He is disgusting example of the Father Coughlin wannabe. He is something most of us thought thankfully was extinct.

So9

40 posted on 03/19/2003 8:49:42 AM PST by Servant of the Nine (JDAM the Arabs, Full Speed Ahead)
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