Jewish lawmakers threaten walk-out over reference to Jesus

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | April 3, 2003 | Diana Lynne

[Proud2BAmerican]

Makes sense to me. I had 2 thoughts to reading this article:

The first was, let'um walk out. So what? If their conscience is bothered by being in attendance while someone prays to Jesus, then by all means, they should vacate the premises. I suspect it had less to do with their conscience though, and more to do with wanting to get in a zinger against Christians.

My second thought was that for those who advocate the Christian minister dropping the Jesus reference, out of respect for those who were in attendance -- would they also encourage a Muslim or Jewish religious leader to INCLUDE a reference to Jesus, out of respect for those Christians in attendance? Of course not. So whereas this particular Christian minister felt a moral obligation to "pray in Jesus' name", per his own faith, he is forced to abdicate that, against his own conscience --- however, others of differing faiths are not held to the same standard.

What it boils down to is the same old tired practice that has become fashionable in America -- when it doubt, stick it to the Christians.

[FITZ]

You might offend

That's just it. What possible kind of prayer can anyone come up with that isn't going to possibly going to offend someone? If you mention Jesus, you'll offend non-Christians, if you say God instead of Gods, you could offend Hindus and pantheists and pagans. If you refer to God as a "he", you offend the feminists. If you even say "God" or "gods" you'll offend the atheists and agnostics ---and if you say anything about God being good, you'll offend the Satanists.

[Dianna]

Why is it is possible for thousands of chaplains, ministers and priests to find prayers that are Christian and yet to do alienate other denomination of Cristianity, Jews, Muslims, or Hindu? As I said on this thread before, I myself participated in many inter-religiosu services, and has never had any problems. Were the priests adn ministers officiating there selling out Christianity? Nonsense

It comes down to this...I believe a Christian has the right to make a Christian prayer EVEN in public. If a Rabbi had said " in the Messiah's name, we say "Amen"", I would not join in (as he is speaking to, about, a being which I have no interaction with) but I wouldn't be offended and assume that Jews were the only people he was including in his prayer.

As long as there are opportunities for Jewish prayer, Christian prayer, Muslim prayer, whatever prayer, I think we are being fair and inclusive of all peoples and THAT is what our Constitution compells us to do. It isn't clear in this case that there are any Jewish led invocations at all. THAT is wrong, IMO. If all types of religions cannot be represented then it is wrong to represent ONLY one.

[TopQuark]

Beleive me, I have no sympathy for the Leftists --- whether they are from Christian or Jewish families. But these people did not walk out from other prayers; the prayers are routinely said in Congress and no one walks out. I am just trying to live by the Commandments: I have no evidence to accuse, so I give the benefit of the doubt.

Most importantly, I tried to explain to many people on this thread that they are, in contrast to you (you can't even get the word "perhaps" out of them; they are sure), are fighting against the strawman. That is, they (I) choose to interpret the situation in a negative way, (ii) take offense, (iii) and accuse. Here I failed miserably: you can't make them think that maybe --- just maybe --- there might be another explanation here. Nope! It's an assault of Christianity. Never mind the facts, that this very same function is performed day in and day out in our Congress and armed forces without any problem --- even from the Leftists. Those d-mn Jews, the trouble-makers.

[Deb]

Exactly.

[F16Fighter]

"'In Jesus Name' is a STANDARD closure to any Christian prayer and has nothing to do with 'emphasizing differences'. Think about it. Why should any Christian cleric change theology just to make you feel good?"

Because many of our Freeper friends have unknowingly been infested with, and fallen prey to the same PC BS they have purportedly vowed to derisively scorn.

[TopQuark]

Neither would I demand that HE change the way he prays. And that is what most on this thread refuse to see: no one is asking him to change the way he prays.

WHat one questions is how he leads others in prayer.

[so_real]

So, for Christians who recite the Lord's Prayer, it goes nowhere? The Lord's Prayer does not have "Jesus" anywhere in it.

C'mon Bella_Bru! Think before you type! JESUS is the One who *GAVE* us the Lord's Prayer when His disciples asked how they should pray to GOD. Can you understand now how idiotic your statement is?

[Rasputin_TheMadMonk]

Don't be an ass.

This isn't ancient Jerusalem and I don't speak Arameic or Hebrew and I don't feel that either is germane to my having a positon concerning my expresion of my belief.

I live in America and I don't have to embrace other cultures to know they aren't mine and are not for me. Believe as you will, but don't expect me to kiss your ass because you aren't pleased by my views.

In short if you want tolerance, get a mircometer.

[Bella_Bru]

The poster said a prayer without Jesus in it goes nowhere.

[F16Fighter]

"Jesus said if you are ashamed of me before men, I will be ashamed of you before my Father."

Amen, sister...

Ooops. Will an 'amen' provoke shrieks of "insensitive" from the militant-ecumenism crowd?

[Bella_Bru]

Jews have been in the U.S. since before it was the U.S.. Sad to tell you, Jewish culture is part of American culture, and we are not going away.

[F16Fighter]

"The Lord's Prayer does not have 'Jesus' anywhere in it."

No you're correct. But Jesus did author it.

[TopQuark]

Christian prayer EVEN in public.

This is not the case; this is not a Christian saying a prayer in public. This is a person leading others in public.

If a minister at a youth service chooses very long, very deep prayers and requests 8-year-olds to follow him that would be deemed inappropriate. The members of the community would ask that he choose something more appropriate for the students' age. That would not be read as request to wather down Christianity, or affront on Christianity itself.

And it does amaze me: no matter how much you explicitly state that this is NOT the angle that bothers you, people on this thread see only one angle: an outsider is attacking Christianity.

Having spent several hours on this thread, I can now say that this reaction is simply pathetic. And scary.

[so_real]

The pastor was well within his right to refuse to compromise on the prayer.

Agreed. Any Christian minister who would compromise his prayer regarding Christ has no conviction. As farmer18 quoted in another post, "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." -- Matthew 10:33

[Delphinium]

I agree, and have tried to drop hints. They don't seem to get it. I am as strong as they in my belief that my prayers have to be made in the name of Jesus, but when they choose to interpret the situation in a negative way, (ii) take offense, (iii) and accuse. they do more harm than good. I want you to consider the Lord Jesus, not be repulsed by His followers.

I really believe that they mean well. Christians have been suffering alot lately from this PC stuff.

[Dianna]

WHat one questions is how he leads others in prayer.

He is saying a prayer out loud and I expect that he will pray in the manner he is accustomed.

I think it is offensive and arrogant that you want to dictate the words this man is allowed to say. NEVER would I be so disrespectful as to demand that a Catholic priest not mention Mary in a public prayer. Nor would I complain if a Rabbi mentioned his yet to come Messiah. It's called tolerance and it's a two way street.

[TopQuark]

My second thought was that for those who advocate the Christian minister dropping the Jesus reference, out of respect for those who were in attendance -- would they also encourage a Muslim or Jewish religious leader to INCLUDE a reference to Jesus, out of respect for those Christians in attendance?

Your thought has the following structure: "Would those who quit playing violin eat an apple instead? Of course not, so everyone should attend at least one year of college." Words that might belong together but do not.

When you are leading in prayer, this no longer your private prayer. If you are in a mixed company, you seek a common ground. If you pray to G-d, you do not jeopardize any of your Christian beliefs and remain on common ground with Christians of all denominations, Jews, Muslims, and Hindu.

It's very simple, actually.

[Dianna]

This is a person leading others in public.

You act as though someone is holding a baseball bat to your head and demanding that you betray your God. By your point of view, we ought never have any public leading of prayer at all. After all, any prayer at all is disrespectful of non-believers.

[wardaddy]

LOL