Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

"Unlike the American troops, we look the Iraqis in the eye"
The Daily Telegraph U.K. ^ | 4-05-03 | Not attributed

Posted on 05/04/2003 3:04:58 PM PDT by WaterDragon

He counts his unit's kills meticulously, each one a tick in black pen on his khaki helmet which is, by now, bleached by the sun and battered from battle. Perched in the turret of his tank, just behind the barrel that is hand-painted with intimidating war cries such as "kill 'em all" or "I'm a motherf***ing warrior", he talks only to those Iraqis with the temerity to approach: he feels vulnerable without a 60-ton Abrams girding his loins. It is impossible to read anything in his eyes because they are always obscured by mirrored sunglasses.

Only in the safety of his unit's headquarters, behind barbed wire and protected by heavy weaponry, does the American marine take off his body armour and helmet. On the streets of Baghdad, out on patrol, he is wary and ill at ease.

Friendly approach: an Irish Guard patrols the streets of Basra Every Iraqi is a potential troublemaker, a possible target. If one fails to stop at his checkpoint, his response will be to open fire. If more than 50 gather to chant anti-American slogans, he will likely flood the street with soldiers. If he so much as suspects that the crowd has weapons he may well consider a full-scale counter-attack.

Still in full battle dress, though the war is over, he is awesome to behold. His President insists that he was never a member of an invading force, that he was a liberator and is now a peacekeeper. Yet much of the time he is loathed, despised and spat upon by those Iraqis for whose freedom he fought. He and his comrades are among the most hated men in the Iraqi capital.

The manner in which the American forces stormed their way to Baghdad may indeed have been awesome. They fought the war with verve, with valour and with steely determination. How they are holding the peace, however, makes a woeful contrast.

British troops, by comparison, are welcomed in southern Iraq with cries of "We love you Britannia, welcome British." In the south, the British not only won the trust of the locals during the war and used it effectively to gather vital intelligence, they kept it in the aftermath. The Americans, hampered by much stricter rules of engagement and with little experience of peacekeeping, are swiftly losing the battle for hearts and minds.

On the streets of Basra, Safwan and Az Zubayr in southern Iraq, British soldiers, with years of experience of dealing with civilian populations in war zones such as Northern Ireland and of peacekeeping in the Balkans and Sierra Leone, are treated as saviours. They have abandoned their helmets in favour of their more people-friendly berets, have taken off their body armour and mingle with the locals. They have helped to set up a local police force and a council to get the city's infrastructure running smoothly.

"Have you met my buddy Ahmed?" says Sergeant Euan Andrews, from the 7th Parachute Regiment of the Royal Horse Artillery, as he swings an arm around an Iraqi by his side outside the freshly painted Basra police station.

Ahmed, beaming in a baseball cap emblazoned with the words "City of Basra police" in Arabic and holding a truncheon, punches his new friend in playful camaraderie. "A month ago we were shooting at each other," says Euan, "now we are on the same side."

As Ahmed, chest swelling with pride, steps out to deal with the next car check by himself, Euan gives him an encouraging nod. "They're all getting there," he says. "It will take time. There is still a lot of: 'He is my cousin, my friend, he is ok.' We have had to explain that police must be impartial. But slowly we are getting there."

That afternoon the soldiers are playing football against the locals and in the evening they have volunteered to repaint the local school. The Iraqis loiter to chat as they pass the station, shaking soldiers by the hand and bringing them home-cooked meals. "Our methods of dealing with the locals are very, very different from that of the Yanks," one officer says over a cup of local coffee. ("Awful," he says, "but they like it when we drink it.")

"Unlike the Americans we have taken off our helmets and sunglasses and we look the locals in the eye. If we see one vehicle heading at speed towards a checkpoint we let it through. It is only one vehicle. We call our method "raid and aid" - don't ask me what we call the American way."

In Basra, raid and aid worked. For two weeks the 7th Armoured Brigade waited at the bridge before entering the city. During that time it built up its relationship with those Iraqis brave enough to provide intelligence about the Fedayeen - Saddam's loyalist fighters - who had held the city to ransom.

The result was that when the British did enter, they knew where to go, who to go after and who to trust. For them the rules of engagement changed as warfare became peacekeeping. Now, they no longer automatically return fire. They wait. Often Iraqi gunfire is a sign of celebration at the return of electricity or running water. They know it is not necessarily attacking fire.

The Americans are, admittedly, bound by much less flexible rules. Their Force Protection Doctrine decrees that all soldiers must wear helmets and body armour in a war zone at all times and that gun fire must be met with response. They also have little experience in the peacekeeping arena, and their experience of urban warfare in the battle for Hue during the Vietnam war and more recently in Somalia has left them jumpy.

The British have learned in the past 30 years that good information on the enemy was their best protection and that putting soldiers at risk to get it was justified; jungle ambushes in Vietnam made the Americans obsessed with "force protection".

Since the killing of four American soldiers by an Iraqi suicide bomber 10 days into the conflict, they have become even more wary of locals.

Last week, Americans killed 15 people - among them two young boys - at Fallujah, an impoverished Shia area 30 miles west of Baghdad - when locals became angry at their occupation of the local school. Though the US troops say they fired in self-defence - and may well have done so - television footage of bleeding Iraqis, clearly unarmed, lying on the roads, have shocked Western viewers.

In Baghdad, where the Americans rarely leave their compounds, lawlessness is widespread. On Friday, when locals realised that Saddam's sister owned a lavish home in Al Jadria in the west of the city, they stormed the house. Pianos, furniture and paintings were dragged away by a mob of looters. When US soldiers arrived they stopped only long enough to warn journalists not to remove anything or they would be arrested, then left the mob rampaging through the house. "I'm not going near that lot," one marine said. "I don't feel safe anywhere near them, unless I am behind a whopping big tank."

In the more affluent areas of Al Mansour and Al Kaarada, local families have been forced to build barricades to keep out thieves as the American soldiers refuse to patrol.

In the Shia ghettos of Saddam City and Khadamia, where the Americans are reluctant to go even in tanks, the local imams have taken matters in hand. "Imams have set up local security stations in the hospitals," says Yousef al Alwani. "Guns that have been looted, many from Saddam's palace, are brought to the mosques and from there the imams take them to the hospital and arm the local militia who are now policing us. The Americans don't protect us and they don't help us. What else are they doing but occupying us?"

Cultural background, say military analysts, explains much of the British success in southern Iraq. "Britain and other European nations have imperial traditions," says Stuart Crawford, a retired lieutenant colonel in the 4th Royal Tank Regiment. "As a result, British troops have been inculcated with the ethos and tradition of colonial policing, where small numbers of men would have close contact on a daily basis with local populations. But America is a young country with no colonial past."

In some respects it is a paradox that Britain, which once ruled an empire, should have a more flexible and sensitive army than America.

At the end of the 19th century, the howitzer and the Maxim gun were the equivalent of the cruise missile and the tankbuster. To maintain control yet allow and encourage people to live in their traditional ways, they became accustomed to understanding and respecting local culture and customs. It is a lesson that the American army has yet, it seems, to learn.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: allies; american; antiamerican; boorishness; british; drivel; iraqifreedom; mediabias; order; totalbs; troops
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 521-523 next last
To: WaterDragon
You can tell that this piece was written by a know-nothing punk because of the way he (she?) failed to capitalize "Marine".

A punk and a coward.

121 posted on 05/04/2003 6:11:56 PM PDT by Lancey Howard ("Not attributed", huh? Punk.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: yarddog
From the Chesapeake Campaign web site.

http://members.attcanada.ca/~htfergus/bladensburg.html

An American officer under command of Joseph Willcocks, Lieutenant Abraham Markle burned the villages between Turkey Point and Port Dover. Outraged by these actions, Governor-General George Prevost informed the newly appointed commander of the North American Naval station, Vice-Admiral Alexander Cochrane that he would like to 'discourage any further atrocities'.

Major-General Robert Ross was an officer detached from Wellington's Army sent to America. With him he brought the 4th, 44th and 85th Regiments of Foot. Ross landed at Bermuda and was joined by the 21st Foot and two others now numbering forty five hundred men. The whole force was commanded by Vice-admiral Cochrane.


The Admiral was so happy to be chosen to carry out this particular mission wrote to the American Secretary of War, James Monroe: "Having been called upon by the Governor-General of the Canadas to aid him in carrying into effect measures of retribution against the inhabitants of the United States for the wanton destruction committed by their army in Upper Canada, it has become my duty, conformable with the nature of the Governor-General's application, to issue to the naval force under my command an order to destroy and lay waste to such towns and districts as you may find assailable..."

On August 3rd 1814, Cochrane sent Rear-Admiral George Cockburn's fleet sailed to Chesapeake Bay with their cargo of Ross' army. On the 15th the fleet reached the Bay and on the 17th sent troops ashore at Benedict, Maryland. When all the army of redcoats was arrived the town was vacant. The plan was to march to Washington and burn it to the ground.

The little army of four thousand troops formed up into three brigades and started the march onto Washington. The heat was so intense that almost fifty men collapsed, and fell to the side of the road. Ross was about to turn the army around but Cockburn and told the men to keep going.

At 2:00 AM on the 20th, a messenger woke the two commanders giving them a message from Cochrane, telling them to retire. Cockburn finally convinced his staff to press on.

The column came to the fork at Long Old Fields. One way was direct and led straight to the capital, the other took a circular path. Ross decided to take the straight road but reversed the formation and started again, but he would have to pass through Bladensburg.

The town was vacant when the British arrived, the bridges were foolishly still left but beyond the militia was formed up.

President Madison had told his wife, Dolley Madison to leave the mansion at any time. Madison then rode up to survey the chances of success which were very slim. The British crossed the bridge leading to the American positions. Several officers fell in a volley of muskets but the British kept coming.

The first brigade to cross under Colonel William Thornton, did not not halt to let the other brigades to keep up. The light troops fired a couple Congrieve Rockets. the militia fled from the field. The British officers called the battle the 'Bladensburg Races'.

The reserve was crushed opening Washington to the British. Mrs. Madison now joined the many people trying to leave the city.

The two commanders arrived in the city at the head of the army. Sniper fire killed the horse that Ross was riding on. What's funny is that the house which the shot came from was Albert Gallatin's (a peace delegate in Ghent). Ross ordered the light companies of the 21st to destroy the building with Congrieve Rockets.

The British wasted no time in torching Washington. It was hard to fire because the lower sections of the houses were made of stone. The House of Representatives was burned with furniture piled to the roof. The heat was so hot that some marble turned to lime. Next came the Treasury Building and right after the Presidential Mansion. In there Cockburn discovered a table for forty persons for a celebration of defeating the British. Cockburn toasted the Prince Regent and helped pile furniture in the oval office.

Some buildings were not torched. One instance some women thought their houses would catch fire from the flames from a neighboring building.

Joseph Gales, the author of an anti-British paper, the National Intelligence, wrote about the burning: "Greater respect was certainly paid to private property than has usually been exhibited by the enemy in his marauding parties. No houses were half as much plundered by the enemy as by the knavish wretches of the town who profited by the general distress.

On the 26th of August, Ross embarked his troops and sailed to Baltimore. Here they bombarded Fort McHenry but were held up by better resistance. Ross was one of the casualties. The 28th the force returned ton Halifax.

NOTE: Congrieve Rockets were not accurate at all but the reason the American militia broke was because they had never seen them before.

NOTE: The 'White House' used to be pink before the British burned it. After the burning the Americans white washed it to hide the burn marks on the bricks.
122 posted on 05/04/2003 6:11:59 PM PDT by IJCR2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: WaterDragon; MadIvan; Happygal
More The Daily Telegraph bullshit.

This paper is what Ivan calls conservative.
123 posted on 05/04/2003 6:12:47 PM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pukka Puck
It is conservative. Conservative does not always mean "Editorially cleared with Pukka Puck".

I don't like this article. I disagree with it. But overall the Telegraph's record is quite good.

Too many people here are willing to jump on the first scrap of anything to scream betrayal.

Ivan

124 posted on 05/04/2003 6:16:21 PM PDT by MadIvan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 123 | View Replies]

To: Michael121
Regardless of numbers, the T-34 was superior to the Sherman, and the JS-1 was superior to the Pershing.

Our biggest problem has always been the guns on our tanks. If I'm not mistaken, the gun currently in the M-1 is made in Germany.

125 posted on 05/04/2003 6:18:26 PM PDT by stinkypew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 120 | View Replies]

To: dead
I'm supposed that the Brits out-think suicide bombers by being culturally sensitive, while Americans just shoot the f#*kers?

Actually, their approach is the same as our SF's: get a lot of snitches working, and get someone to rat the bomber out before he can do his thing. Then you go and grab him and he goes to the professional interrogators (and you never hear what he said, even if you could plan more ops off of it, but that's a battle to fight another day).

Also, we found that the more people were exposed to what Americans were really like, the less trouble we had with them. A lot of troublemakers are stirred up from watching Hollywood nonsense and listening to bullshit from mullahs. When we medevaced a dying kid in a helicopter and brought him back healthy two weeks later, the BS merchants lost all their traction in our area. By the time I left there was one guy trying to pay someone to rocket us, and he had no takers.

I understand why the generals want everyone in vests and Kevlar chapeaus -- they don't like burying their men. But militarily, it's less effective than operating more openly -- once the shooting and shelling tapers off a bit. (I wore my vest sometimes, especially when looking for trouble. I only used my helmet once, for a parachute jump). And this stuff isn't perfect. Gene Vance had his vest on, and it didn't do him any good at all.

There's also a whacky belief that we can replace boots-on-ground patrolling, and human intelligence, with stuff like Predator reconnaissance and satellites. Most of the people who believe that have the "shafted pansy" emblem of MI on their Class A collar. Nobody who actually gets shot at thinks of the technology as that important.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

126 posted on 05/04/2003 6:18:28 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: WaterDragon
"The Telegraph, supposedly the most conservative newspaper in Britain, has published a series of drivel like this throughout the war."

They know how to treat the Iraqis but they believe in crapping on their allies.
127 posted on 05/04/2003 6:19:07 PM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Grampa Dave
Do the Marines even have Abrams?

Yeah. Don't believe they have anything else anymore (a downsized Army benefits somebody, see!)

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

128 posted on 05/04/2003 6:20:30 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: dandelion
And the Japs, too.
129 posted on 05/04/2003 6:21:08 PM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Pukka Puck
They know how to treat the Iraqis but they believe in crapping on their allies.

Oh do shut up. I've posted countless articles from the Telegraph in praise of George W. Bush and what he is doing. You choose to focus on 2 articles from the paper that don't say what you want. Well, what is it, you want the Telegraph to be an editorially independent newspaper, even if that puts the proverbial burr under your saddle, or should it just ring you up before it says anything?

Ivan

130 posted on 05/04/2003 6:22:02 PM PDT by MadIvan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: Happy2BMe
Thanks for your comments

Im not going to reply to the comments here critising the uk military efforts,. The people making those comments are understandably annoyed by the report, although i certainly hope people do not believe the troops took basra methodically outof fear!!. However our press is often making up stupid stories such as this, people in the uk generally have learnt to ignore most of these reports with a pinch of salt.

Instead to show the true relationship between the forces working out there ill simply post one comment by a serving USMarine and one by a serving royal marine. It is these people i prefer to take at their word

BY A USMARINE
___
Possible seperation at birth, United States Marines & British Royal Marines
______

BY A SERVING ROYAL MARINE

_____
I left New Delhi feeling very impressed by the US Marines. They were incredibly friendly and they did exude confidence, decency and efficacy.

My limited time with them was one of the reasons I applied to the Royal Marines.

I look forward to working with the USMC in the future.

______
131 posted on 05/04/2003 6:23:06 PM PDT by may18
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies]

To: stinkypew
The Russians did most of the Hitler-whippin. Not us. And in my opinion the Brits did at least as much as we did. Probably more.

Umm...No.

When you look at what we did in the Pacific versus the Brits we did a whole lot more. The same can be said of the air war in Europe where we lost 40,000 guys in a year and even all the major ground fighting.
132 posted on 05/04/2003 6:25:07 PM PDT by Live free or die
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: seamole
Perhaps a new service branch, explicitly for "civilian" and "reconstruction" operations, is called for.

The Army has "Civil Affairs" troops for just those purposes. Most of them are Reservists. We had an element of CA guys with us. They were great and helped a lot. They built a bridge to one town, and had bigger projects planned including well-drilling and schools. The bigger projects always seemed to get bogged down in the bureaucracy of the Army but they will get done sooner or later.

I think the USMC has CA soldiers and officers as well.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

133 posted on 05/04/2003 6:25:08 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: JimSEA
"I see, this explains why the US troops swept through all of Iraq to Baghdad while the Brits surrounded Basra waiting until the internal competing factions had killed each other off??"

Actually, the Brits surrounded Basra and then hung out on the outskirts of the city, waiting for the Americans to take Baghdad, thus making the defense of Basra moot, so that the Brits could then waltz in to Basra without a fight.
134 posted on 05/04/2003 6:25:09 PM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Pukka Puck
Actually, the Brits surrounded Basra and then hung out on the outskirts of the city, waiting for the Americans to take Baghdad, thus making the defense of Basra moot, so that the Brits could then waltz in to Basra without a fight.

Liar.

Ivan

135 posted on 05/04/2003 6:25:44 PM PDT by MadIvan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 134 | View Replies]

To: Michael121
Accoding to "Tank vs. Tank" (a comparison of tanks throughout history), the gun on the Sherman failed against the frontal armor of the PzKw III at point blank range, whereas the T-34 could penetrate at up to 200 meters.
136 posted on 05/04/2003 6:25:54 PM PDT by stinkypew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 120 | View Replies]

To: stinkypew
Without America, the Brits and the Russians would have been whipped by the Germans.
137 posted on 05/04/2003 6:26:35 PM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Live free or die
I didn't know Hitler was in the Pacific. What does the Pacific have to do with fighting Hitler?
138 posted on 05/04/2003 6:28:08 PM PDT by stinkypew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 132 | View Replies]

To: Vigilanteman
No, the gist of the article is that Americans suck.
139 posted on 05/04/2003 6:28:44 PM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: No Truce With Kings
Good points! In war as in real estate Location is King. As I mentioned, the bad guys in my area couldn't pay anybody to rocket us. My buds in one of the camps near the Paki border got rocketed daily. They were deep in Pushtunistan and I wasn't (lucky me).

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F
140 posted on 05/04/2003 6:28:53 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 521-523 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson