Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

'Oldest Sculpture' Found In Morocco (400K Years Old)
BBC ^ | 5-23-2003 | Paul Rincon

Posted on 05/23/2003 5:52:37 AM PDT by blam

'Oldest sculpture' found in Morocco

By Paul Rincon
BBC Science

A 400,000-year-old stone object unearthed in Morocco could be the world's oldest attempt at sculpture.

The figurine was found 15 metres below ground

That is the claim of a prehistoric art specialist who says the ancient rock bears clear signs of modification by humans.

The object, which is around six centimetres in length, is shaped like a human figure, with grooves that suggest a neck, arms and legs. On its surface are flakes of a red substance that could be remnants of paint.

The object was found 15 metres below the eroded surface of a terrace on the north bank of the river Draa near the town of Tan-Tan. It was reportedly lying just a few centimetres away from stone handaxes in ground layers dating to the Middle Acheulian period, which lasted from 500,000 to 300,000 years ago.

Cultural controversy

The find is likely to further fuel a vociferous debate over the timing of humanity's discovery of symbolism. Hominids such as Homo heidelbergensis and Homo erectus, that were alive during the Acheulian period, are not thought to have been capable of the symbolic thought needed to create art.

Writing in the journal Current Anthropology, Robert Bednarik, president of the International Federation of Rock Art Organisations (IFRAO), suggests that the overall shape of the Tan-Tan object was fashioned by natural processes.

But he argues that conspicuous grooves on the surface of the stone, which appear to emphasise its humanlike appearance, are partially man-made. Mr Bednarik claims that some of these grooves were made by repeated battering with a stone tool to connect up natural depressions in the rock.

Stone handaxes like these were found close to the figurine

"What we've got is a piece of stone that is largely naturally shaped.

"It has some modifications, but they are more than modifications," Mr Bednarik told BBC News Online.

Mr Bednarik tried to replicate the markings on a similar piece of rock by hitting a stone flake with a "hammerstone" in the manner of a punch. He then compared the microscopic structure of the fractures with those of the Tan-Tan object.

Sceptic's view

However, Professor Stanley Ambrose of the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign said he saw no evidence for tool marks and that, although the figure was evocative, it was most likely the result of "fortuitous natural weathering".

"He [Mr Bednarik] has effectively presented all the information necessary to show this is a naturally weathered rock," Professor Ambrose told BBC News Online.

Professor Ambrose points to Mr Bednarik's observation that some rocks in the vicinity of the figure were weathered and even rounded from transport by water. Professor Ambrose believes that rocks and artifacts found at the site could have been disturbed by flowing water in the past.

Mr Bednarik also observes that flecks of a greasy substance containing iron and manganese on the surface of the stone could be red ochre, a substance used as paint by later humans.

"They [the specks] do not resemble corroded natural iron deposits, nor has any trace of this pigment been detected on any of the other objects I have examined from Tan-Tan," writes Mr Bednarik in the paper.

A 200,000-300,000-year-old stone object found at Berekhat Ram in Israel in 1986 has also been the subject of claims that it is a figurine. However, several other researchers later presented evidence that it was shaped by geological processes.

The Tan-Tan object was discovered in 1999, during a dig directed by Lutz Fiedler, the state archaeologist of Hesse in Germany.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antiquities; godsgravesglyphs; longliverock; morocco; oldest; robertbednarik; sculpture; stanleyambrose
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-117 next last
To: evets
Ease up! Almost wet myself. ROTFLMAO
41 posted on 05/23/2003 6:56:37 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (If you're looking for a friend, get a dog.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: blam
Some guy named Achmed made the statuette about 2 years ago using some 400,000-year-old clay he found under a rock.
42 posted on 05/23/2003 6:57:29 AM PDT by Consort
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: error99
"One time, Cliff Claven found a potato that looked like Abe Lincoln ! "

I remember that. This is series.
43 posted on 05/23/2003 6:58:36 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (If you're looking for a friend, get a dog.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Flurry
"little sticker ... includes a date"

Yeah, it also says "Made in China"!
44 posted on 05/23/2003 7:05:34 AM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (Problems that go away on their own, can come back on their own.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: new cruelty
http://www.icr.org/

This is one of many many places you can read on this topic. It was quite a paradigm shift for me after 22 years of believing in evolution, to get saved and learn that there was a large piece of the population that believed that the universe was only 6000 years old. Many of those people are engineers and scientists and doctors. When I first became a Christian I just thought God could have made the universe when and however He wanted. Then, after learning about the bible and it's divine inspiriation and trustworthness I realized, through some Christian discipleship, that the bible is very clear on the subject.

45 posted on 05/23/2003 7:12:20 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrissssstian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: new cruelty
check out www.drdino.com

(sorry it's not a hotlink - I gotta tear myself away from the forum long enough to figure out the html stuff)
46 posted on 05/23/2003 7:13:42 AM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (Problems that go away on their own, can come back on their own.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy
Considering that the fore-runners of chimps split from the line of man some 6 or 7 million years ago, I would not expect a tool-maker from +- 400,000 years ago to be much more chimp like.

The statue maker could have been H. Neandarthal, could have been H. Erectus. Could have even been a type of hominid yet to be described. But it wasn't a chimp, anymore than you are a chimp.
47 posted on 05/23/2003 7:15:50 AM PDT by The Shootist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: new cruelty
Try putting "6000 years" in the search window on the main page.
48 posted on 05/23/2003 7:16:50 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrissssstian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: blam
YEC skeptical read later
49 posted on 05/23/2003 7:17:08 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hegemony Cricket
No! It says, "Made in New York City by Sculptor's Local 103225. 400,002 BC". Who could doubt the authenticity? It's a flint Statue of Liberty. It is my prized possession.
50 posted on 05/23/2003 7:19:45 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (If you're looking for a friend, get a dog.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Flurry
LOL! Well who am I to argue with that conclusive proof? :-)
51 posted on 05/23/2003 7:21:58 AM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (Problems that go away on their own, can come back on their own.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Hegemony Cricket
If it's printed right there on the sticker, I'm not going to question it.
52 posted on 05/23/2003 7:25:45 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (If you're looking for a friend, get a dog.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk
I've always found the whole creationist movement interesting. I don't agree with it personally, but it seems there is a sizeable group of people who do.

My personal belief is that God created the universe billions of years ago. The story of Creation in the bible is a parable describing the process in a simplified way for people who didn't have an understanding of astrophysics, carbon-dating, biology etc. As we learn more about science, the general outline of the creation of the universe remains the same, we're just able to "fill in the blanks."

So, two questions:

1) How do folks who believe that the world is 6000 years old explain carbon-dating?

2) What about fossils of things like dinosaurs etc. that are hundreds of millions of years old?
53 posted on 05/23/2003 7:25:47 AM PDT by Modernman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Hegemony Cricket
hehe.. great name. thanks for the link.

regarding html, i picked up some while reading many other posts... here is a quick example using the site you provided:

<*a href="http://www.drdino.com">drdino.com<*/a>

remove the asterisks '*' from the above line and the link will look like this drdino.com

54 posted on 05/23/2003 7:29:19 AM PDT by new cruelty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: new cruelty
Thanks, and double thanks. JimRob posted a thread for newbies here a while back that had a whole slew of resources for learning all about it, but, like I say, I haven't been abvle to tear myself away from the forums to get into it. I know, they state right up front that it is addictive, and man are they right!
55 posted on 05/23/2003 7:34:06 AM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (Problems that go away on their own, can come back on their own.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: blam
could be the kneecap of an elephant or a joselyn elders prop
56 posted on 05/23/2003 7:34:15 AM PDT by 2nd Amendment
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam
There are examples of archaic H. Sapiens and H. Sapiens Neanderthalensis which date from between 250,000 and 400,000 years ago.
57 posted on 05/23/2003 7:40:05 AM PDT by The Shootist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: 2nd Amendment
Okay,telling my age here but can anyone say"ancient dickey bird alert"
58 posted on 05/23/2003 7:42:08 AM PDT by eastforker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: Hegemony Cricket; new cruelty; biblewonk; HankReardon; activationproducts; PatrickHenry
You might not be quite so hot on "Dr. Dino" after reading this page and its links:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/

Young Earth? There are mountains evidence for both an ancient universe and Earth. The Earth is estimated to be close to 4.56 billion years old and the universe is in the 12 to 13 billion year range. See:

http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/2002/10/

Patrick, could you post you usual list-o-links?
59 posted on 05/23/2003 7:43:34 AM PDT by RadioAstronomer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Modernman
I've always found the whole creationist movement interesting. I don't agree with it personally, but it seems there is a sizeable group of people who do.

Yeah. There are also people who believe that we never landed on the moon either. And then there is that that bridge in Brooklyn that I've been meaning to sell . . .

Frankly I have yet to discover how the fundies can take the two separate and distinct Creation Stories found in Genesis literally and yet "when their hand offends them" they fail to cut it off.

It is a mystery deeper than that of archaic man.

60 posted on 05/23/2003 7:48:40 AM PDT by The Shootist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-117 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson