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Canadian Prime Minister Taunts Church: "I Am A Catholic And For Abortion"
Life Site ^ | 5/28/03

Posted on 05/29/2003 2:39:25 PM PDT by marshmallow

Cardinal Ambrozic "Sorry, Disappointed And Upset" With PM's Abortion Stand

ATHENS, May 28, 2003 (LifeSiteNews.com) - In widely reported comments, Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien, said "I am a Catholic and for abortion." The Prime Minister's remarks were made en route to Athens yesterday during a frank discussion with reporters in which he boasted that he was superior to U.S. President Bush on fiscal and social matters.

Through a spokesman, Cardinal Aloysius Ambrozic commented to LifeSite on the Prime Ministers statement. Moreover, Chretien's bishop, Ottawa Archbishop Marcel Gervais communicated to LifeSite he will also be addressing the matter.

Suzanne Scorsone, the Director of Communications for the Archdiocese of Toronto told LifeSite, "The Cardinal is sorry, disappointed, and upset at what he has seen some newspapers today quoting the prime minister as having said on the subject of abortion." Gabrielle Tasse, Director of Communications for the Archdiocese of Ottawa told LifeSite "The Archbishop will be dealing with the matter in a private manner and will be in touch with the Prime Ministers Office today."

After slamming Bush on financial matters saying, "We still have surpluses. The Americans will have a $500-billion deficit this year and it is a right-wing government. If we were to equal that we would have to have a $75-billion deficit. Imagine!," Chretien took aim at Bush's social policy emphasizing where he differs with the U.S. President. "I am a Catholic and for abortion and he is not," Chretien said.

As LifeSite reported last week, Chretien has become increasingly more brazen in his pro-abortion comments. On May 14 in a speech in Montreal, he was reported as saying that Canada is better than the U.S. since we have abortion rights. During his speech Chretien said, "We don't have big debates on the rights of abortion because we decided a long time ago in Canada it is the choice of women, which is not the case in a lot of U.S. states."

Chretien has even gone so far as to spout his pro-abortion rhetoric at a Catholic school and for which he received condemnation from Ottawa Bishop Marcel Gervais.

Since the reign of Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, Canadian Catholic politicians have been notorious for imposing radical social changes on the country and even abroad which violate serious Church moral teaching. So far, they have not been subject to any removal of Catholic sacramental privileges and have often been able to find some liberal theologian or other church authority to condone their actions. There are increasing signs that this decades long trend may soon change.

To express concerns to the PM:

Rt. Hon. Jean Chretien Prime Minister Government of Canada Parliament Hill Ottawa, ON K1A 0A6 Canada Fax: (613) 941-6900 E-mail: pm@pm.gc.ca


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: abortionlist; catholiclist; prolife
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1 posted on 05/29/2003 2:39:26 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
Proof that mad-cow disease is rampant in Canada
2 posted on 05/29/2003 2:41:23 PM PDT by kaktuskid
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To: marshmallow
Where is this scum-bag's Bishop?

Surely they don't lack the stones to excommunicate this poltroon?

TIa

3 posted on 05/29/2003 2:41:36 PM PDT by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno World!")
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To: marshmallow
Chretien said, "We don't have big debates on the rights of abortion because we decided a long time ago in Canada it is the choice of women, which is not the case in a lot of U.S. states."

This is news to the some 1.1 million babies that get flushed down the toilet here in the US.

4 posted on 05/29/2003 2:43:04 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: marshmallow
In widely reported comments, Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien, said "I am a Catholic and for abortion."

It's time for an excommunication.

5 posted on 05/29/2003 2:43:31 PM PDT by willowpar
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To: marshmallow
Cretin
6 posted on 05/29/2003 2:43:56 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: marshmallow
He is acting like a madman, daring his local Bishop to essentially excommunicate him. Very unlike a statesman or a good politician or a national leader. He is an embarrassment to Canada.
7 posted on 05/29/2003 2:44:37 PM PDT by NetValue (Militant Islam first swarms the states it will later dominate.)
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To: kaktuskid
Proof that mad-cow disease is rampant in Canada.

Even Clinton was never this crazy. There has to be something seriously wrong with Chretien.

8 posted on 05/29/2003 2:44:37 PM PDT by xJones
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To: marshmallow
We'll see how good he feels about the taunts when he faces his creator.

He has much to answer for.

9 posted on 05/29/2003 2:45:23 PM PDT by LADY J
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To: marshmallow
That is like saying I am Christian but pro-murder.

It is not a CHOICE.
It is a CHILD.
10 posted on 05/29/2003 2:45:41 PM PDT by buffyt (Can you say President Hillary, Mistress of Darkness? Me Neither!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah; Desdemona; Salvation; NYer; JMJ333; american colleen; SuziQ; ...
ping
11 posted on 05/29/2003 2:46:13 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: marshmallow
There is always room for an excommunication. Cretien's flaunts will come back and kick him in the butt.
12 posted on 05/29/2003 2:47:41 PM PDT by madison10
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To: cpforlife.org; Cicero; patent; Coleus; madprof98
ping
13 posted on 05/29/2003 2:47:41 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: marshmallow
Sorry Cretin, to be Catholic you MUST (not optional) follow church doctrine.....

Your not Catholic.....

NeverGore
14 posted on 05/29/2003 2:47:53 PM PDT by nevergore (If stupidity hurt, Frenchmen would be writhing in pain....)
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To: marshmallow
What a total jerk this guy is.
15 posted on 05/29/2003 2:51:00 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: marshmallow
Strange...I have not heard any politicians (or anyone else fot that matter) come out and say, "I am Pentecostal and for abortion!"
16 posted on 05/29/2003 2:53:19 PM PDT by Onelifetogive
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To: marshmallow
Yeah, yeah. And he says he's Canadian, too, eh.... Pffft.
17 posted on 05/29/2003 2:55:46 PM PDT by dandelion
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To: marshmallow

Time for:
The Inquisition!!!
18 posted on 05/29/2003 2:56:17 PM PDT by keithtoo (Luvya Dubya)
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To: marshmallow
Probably not for long the way some Bishops are taking strong stands!!!!!!

19 posted on 05/29/2003 2:59:18 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: keithtoo
If they start excommunicating all Catholics who are pro-choice, will they next move all to excommunicating all Catholics who believe in the death penalty, since the church is against that too?
20 posted on 05/29/2003 3:01:52 PM PDT by ChicagoGuy
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To: ChicagoGuy
Although the Pope has personally pronounced his opposition to the death penalty, I do not believe that position is an official part of church doctrine. Correct me if I am wrong.
21 posted on 05/29/2003 3:05:44 PM PDT by ernie pantuso
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To: NetValue
The Catholic Church usually reserves excommunication for recalcatrant bishops and authority figures, not for pew-warming Catholics.

It's RARELY done. I think the last time I heard of someone getting excommunicated in the RCC, it was in reference to a bishop in Africa who "married" a woman in a ceremony performed by Rev. Moon. He repented and the pope took him back.
22 posted on 05/29/2003 3:07:21 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal,Jewish sage)
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To: Tamar1973
Can his priest refuse to give him communion (assuming he shows up for mass once in a while)? Is refusing communion within the discretion of the priest? Is that tantamount to excommunication?
23 posted on 05/29/2003 3:10:29 PM PDT by wimpycat ('Nemo me impune lacessit')
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To: ernie pantuso
The pope's "personal" opposition to the death penalty is not at all like the so-called Catholic politicians' occasionally professed "personal" distaste for abortion. Rather, it's a matter of Christian teaching, set forth in an encyclical and codified in the 1997 Catechism of the Catholic Church. Of course, those who favor this form of killing will immediately say, "Ah, but it's not INFALLIBLE." To which the pro-aborts will say, "And neither is the pro-life stuff since, after all, Thomas Aquinas didn't think embryos had souls." Etc. Ad nauseam. In both cases, we are dealing with cafeteria Catholics.
24 posted on 05/29/2003 3:11:38 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: madprof98
Well said. I say excommunicate all of them, or none of them.
25 posted on 05/29/2003 3:13:14 PM PDT by ChicagoGuy
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To: tiamat
Where is this scum-bag's Bishop?

Most Rev. Martin Veillette, Bishop of Trois-Rivières, Quebec, can be freeped at secretariat@evechetr.org

Surely they don't lack the stones to excommunicate this poltroon?

Yes they do. The Quebec bishops are a notoriously craven lot.

26 posted on 05/29/2003 3:13:50 PM PDT by Loyalist (Keeper of the Schismatic Orc Ping List. Freepmail me if you want on or off it.)
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To: Onelifetogive
Strange...I have not heard any politicians (or anyone else fot that matter) come out and say, "I am Pentecostal and for abortion!"

Probably because you've never seen a liberal Pentacostal before...and neither have I, come to think of it. There are plenty of people of other denominations that are pro-"choice", though. But "liberal" and "Pentacostal" are pretty much mutually exclusive.

27 posted on 05/29/2003 3:14:48 PM PDT by wimpycat ('Nemo me impune lacessit')
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To: marshmallow
I am a Catholic and for abortion and he is not.

Basically, M. Chretien is saying that he is a Catholic whose faith means nothing to him, since he doesn't believe in that faith's tenets. And he apparently thinks this is something praiseworthy. Unfortunately, he is like many Catholic politicians (and other Catholics) nowadays for whom left wing party line political correctness is more important than their faith.

28 posted on 05/29/2003 3:17:05 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: wimpycat
Can his priest refuse to give him communion (assuming he shows up for mass once in a while)? Is refusing communion within the discretion of the priest? Is that tantamount to excommunication?

From what I have heard/read, yes. The local priest can refuse to give a Catholic access to the Eucharist if they feel that the person is living in a state of unrepented sin.

Refusing to offer eucharist and excommunication are not the same thing. Having to refuse a catholic access to the eucharist due to the issue of cherish, unrepented sin doesn't make one a non-catholic. Excommunication would make the person a non-catholic in the eyes of the church.

29 posted on 05/29/2003 3:17:06 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal,Jewish sage)
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To: All
Perhaps then the CAN PM ought to consider starting with his own mother. Should she have been allowed to have an abortion? If she wasn't, should it be done retroactively, given the PM's remarks and position on this issue?
30 posted on 05/29/2003 3:17:37 PM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: madprof98
I don't understand what you are saying. Could you clarify what your post#24 mean? As I stated in my post, correct me if I am wrong. I am just a little confused by your remarks.
31 posted on 05/29/2003 3:18:48 PM PDT by ernie pantuso
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To: marshmallow
He's not a Catholic. He's a different kind of lic(k).
32 posted on 05/29/2003 3:19:57 PM PDT by arasina (Uh oh! I need a new tag line!)
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To: UCANSEE2
Ti-Jean was the 18th of 19 children in his family, only nine of whom survived infancy.

When Quebec was good and Catholic, they didn't have to worry about assimilation by les anglais because they understood what was meant by la revanche des berceaux.

33 posted on 05/29/2003 3:21:22 PM PDT by Loyalist (Keeper of the Schismatic Orc Ping List. Freepmail me if you want on or off it.)
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To: All
Christians, who vote for pro-abortion candidates, prolong the duration of this abortion holocaust. Voting records of Christians show that our schools have not taught the truth about the unborn in an effective way as an option to the lies we’ve all been exposed to. When our shepherds express their “sadness and frustration” over their flocks repeated votes for pro-abortion politicians, it must be respectfully pointed out to these shepherds that they did not educate their former students in Christian schools as to WHY they are supposed to be pro-life, to VOTE pro-life. THEY WERE NOT TAUGHT THE TRUTH, so they swallowed the lies. Quite frankly we should not expect these ex-pro-life people to make voting pro-life a priority—we let them down.

It is time for the pro-life movement together with the leaders of the Protestant and Catholic churches to face this simple reality: We are responsible for how our students of today will live and VOTE as adults. If we want them to end this growing culture of death, we must teach and prepare them NOW - in a comprehensive way.
34 posted on 05/29/2003 3:23:37 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (“My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.” Hosea 4:6)
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To: madprof98

Wrong, the CCC states that it is that punishment for criminals belongs to the state. The death penalty is not even close to being on the same level of abortion, and the CCC states that is no other way can be found to protect society, then the death penalty can be used as a option. The Catholics who state pro death penalty Catholics are cafateria Catholics are either "seamless garment" Catholics who are liberal on social matters other than abortion, or Papal Maximalists who take the cult of personality surrounding a Pope alot further than was was in the days of Pope Pius IX.
35 posted on 05/29/2003 3:29:34 PM PDT by JNB
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To: nickcarraway
The Church needs to call his bluff.
36 posted on 05/29/2003 3:32:55 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: UCANSEE2
I only support abortion when we develop time travel. At that point, I'll develop a list of left-wing politicians' mothers and a large sum in gold or antique money.
37 posted on 05/29/2003 3:34:53 PM PDT by AmishDude
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To: Loyalist
they understood what was meant by la revanche des berceaux.

I do not. I would be interested in finding out. Would you mind explaining the phrase above to me? I do not understand why he is making an issue about ABORTION and being CATHOLIC. Usually politicals do it for political gain. This seems contrary to that, but perhaps It is because I know little about Canadian politics.

38 posted on 05/29/2003 3:44:11 PM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: JNB
Here is what the CCC states.

2267 "Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.


One can make arguements that prisoners on death row have escaped and have murderd other people, as what happened Texas a few years ago whebn a young police officer was killed in the DFW area, or what happens is when condemned prisoners murder other prisoners, as what has taken place many times. The death penalty is linked to the just war issue, and while far more needs to be done to apply the death penalty in a just manner(look no further than the OJ case, even if he was convicted he would not have faced the death penalty because he had money to buy a good team of lawyers), the method of punishment belongs to the state, and is not evil or immoral if the punishment is done justly, much like the case for or against the just war. Seamless Garment for amchurch liberals and Papal Maximalism for neo-conservatives do not cut it when one actually reads the CCC and looks at the real world applications.
39 posted on 05/29/2003 3:44:19 PM PDT by JNB
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To: wimpycat
But "liberal" and "Pentacostal" are pretty much mutually exclusive.

There are some. But libral by Pentacostal standards is pretty conservitive by almost any other.

I have never met one who is pro-abort.

40 posted on 05/29/2003 3:45:57 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (And this is all part of some evil plot to rule the world as a soggy chimp in my birthday suit!!)
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To: marshmallow
The Catholic Church has lost it's moral high ground by not taking any serious action against politicains such as chretien who supprts the murder of the unborn. Yet, the Pope was very quick to condem President Bush for going after saddam the mass murderer. I grieved for the Catholic Church, once the bastion of morality.
41 posted on 05/29/2003 3:49:46 PM PDT by desertcry
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To: xJones
seriously wrong with chretien... Yes there is something wrong with the critter, extreme arrogance. When an arrogant person starts to blow his/her horn, she/he can not stop until all the poisonous stinking gases are released.
42 posted on 05/29/2003 3:56:40 PM PDT by desertcry
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To: ChicagoGuy
The Catholic Church does not teach that imposing the death penalty is intrinsically immoral. The Pope does not teach that, and the Church never will teach it.
43 posted on 05/29/2003 3:56:46 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: ChicagoGuy
will they next move all to excommunicating all Catholics who believe in the death penalty, since the church is against that too?

Incorrect. The teaching of the Church is that capital punishment should be rare. Many people, like Helen Prejean, have twisted what the Pope wrote in Evangelium vitae 56 into a claim that the Church absolutely opposes the death penalty.

Capital Punishment

2266 The State's effort to contain the spread of behaviors injurious to human rights and the fundamental rules of civil coexistence corresponds to the requirement of watching over the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime. The primary scope of the penalty is to redress the disorder caused by the offense. When his punishment is voluntarily accepted by the offender, it takes on the value of expiation. Moreover, punishment, in addition to preserving public order and the safety of persons, has a medicinal scope: as far as possible it should contribute to the correction of the offender.[67]

2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.

"If, instead, bloodless means are sufficient to defend against the aggressor and to protect the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

"Today, in fact, given the means at the State's disposal to effectively repress crime by rendering inoffensive the one who has committed it, without depriving him definitively of the possibility of redeeming himself, cases of absolute necessity for suppression of the offender 'today ... are very rare, if not practically non-existent.' [68]

44 posted on 05/29/2003 3:59:01 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: Unam Sanctam

Unfortunately, he is like many Catholic politicians (and other Catholics) nowadays for whom left wing party line political correctness is more important than their faith.

Wouldn't you agree that;
he is like many Leftist Catholic politicians and laymen nowadays for whom political correctness IS their faith.


45 posted on 05/29/2003 4:07:41 PM PDT by pyx
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To: marshmallow; Antoninus; Black Agnes; Clemenza; FatherFig1o155; hobbes1; Mike Fieschko; ...
To express concerns to the PM:

Rt. Hon. Jean Chretien
Prime Minister
Government of Canada
Parliament Hill
Ottawa, ON K1A 0A6
Canada
Fax: (613) 941-6900
E-mail: pm@pm.gc.ca  

See related LifeSite coverage:
CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER PROMOTES ABORTION AT CATHOLIC HIGH SCHOOL
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2000/nov/00110101.html
OTTAWA BISHOP SLAMS PRIME MINISTER'S COMMENTS AT CATHOLIC SCHOOL
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2000/nov/00110301.html
CANADIAN CATHOLIC LEADERS DECRY CLARK AND CHRETIEN'S CATHOLIC AND PRO-CHOICE" MOTTO
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2000/nov/00112401.html
PRIME MINISTER ANNOUNCES LIBERAL PARTY IS PRO-ABORTION
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2000/mar/00032401.html

46 posted on 05/29/2003 4:27:37 PM PDT by Coleus (God is Pro Life and Straight)
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To: wimpycat; Onelifetogive
I know of a lot of Black and Hispanic Pentacostals/Evangelicals, Baptists, who are democrats, pro-abortion, and against school vouchers.
47 posted on 05/29/2003 4:29:32 PM PDT by Coleus (God is Pro Life and Straight)
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To: marshmallow
There are increasing signs that
 this decades long trend may soon change.


Such as?  Have you seen any Christian marches
down Avenue Road, or is it Road Avenue?
Yonge Street is surprisingly unparaded by
the religious right, also.  Nonetheless, the trends
could change if Liberals take the next election
sufficiently strongly to maintain their electoral
dictatorship.  A confederation rupture from the
right could toss the entire country into the air.
When it comes back down, the new arrangement
could change a lot of things.
48 posted on 05/29/2003 4:40:58 PM PDT by gcruse (Vice is nice, but virtue can hurt you. --Bill Bennett)
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To: Coleus
bump
49 posted on 05/29/2003 4:49:48 PM PDT by fatima (Go Karen,Look at all these's prayers.For all our troops,we love you.)
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To: JNB
Wrong,

Another Catholic who cannot wait to defend killing! And I'm "wrong" to say that the teaching against capital punishment is expressed in a papal encyclical and included in the Catechism? Nope, I'm right. And I'm also right about right-wing cafeteria Catholics, of whom you are most evidently numbered.

. . . the CCC states that is no other way can be found to protect society, then the death penalty can be used as a option.

The Holy Father has made it abundantly clear that such conditions do not apply in the United States, as you very well know.

The Catholics who state pro death penalty Catholics are cafateria Catholics are either "seamless garment" Catholics who are liberal on social matters other than abortion . . .

Guilty as charged. I believe in the teachings of the Church to the letter, including the Church's teachings on "social matters," which I'm sure you consider every bit as abhorrent as the teachings of the Gospel to care for the poor and renounce revenge.

50 posted on 05/29/2003 5:36:12 PM PDT by madprof98
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