What are the most important factors in determining "stopping power"? (vanity)

self

[rudy45]

I have been investigating various pistols for self-defense/concealed carry purposes. From time to time I see threads on the merits of one caliber vs. another. For example, I have seen snide (g) comments about .380 (e.g. "great for shooting mice" or "what are you going to do with it, THROW it at your attacker?").

I wonder, however, if OTHER factors besides caliber will affect stopping power. Specifically, am I correct that different types of ammunition, though designed for the same gun, can/will have different speeds? If I remember my physics correctly, force=mass times the square of acceleration. Therefore, is it possible that even with a "smaller" caliber such as .22 or .380, I can compensate by having a higher velocity round? In other words, do different types of ammunition vary that greatly in speed as to affect stopping ability? Thanks.

[Pistolshot]

Here is the other problem with what to carry. The size packages available for summer carry are limited. The Glock mini's are nice, but bulky. The 380 size guns are pocketable, also kinda bulky. The KAHR is a smallish pistol with the 9mm/40S&W at its caliber. It is about the same size as a lot of 380's and in a more effective cartridge.

The 22/25 are a compromise in carry package, certainly not in caliber choice. The 25 starts to come into a better cartridge, but only with specialized ammo....Glasers. The 380 is an ok cartridge, but if you are looking at a package that small, there are many good 38 Special revolvers in the same size and even less weight with Titanium available. And you get a more effective cartridge.

[Eagle Eye]

I once attended a triple funeral for three people each killed with one .22lr shot to the head.

[Euro-American Scum]

Bump.

[Bogey78O]

A woman in NEw Orleans was killed last month by a .22 to the chest.

The effective thing about the round is that if the location is right it bounces around inside the body. It may not stop a charge but that can be just as lethal.

[Euro-American Scum]

I once attended a triple funeral for three people each killed with one .22lr shot to the head.

And that round can indeed produce fatal results, with head shots, as in the assassination of Robert Kennedy. However, John Hinkley failed to produce similar results when he attacked Ronald Reagan in 1981. If Hickley had a .45, we'd have had George Bush (41) eight years earlier. (Perish the thought!)

[Eagle Eye]

I'm not recommending a Ruger MK II for self defense, but with the right shot placement it, or others of the same caliber are lethal.

But I'd rather have that .22 than a rolled up newspaper!

[ken5050]

The ratio of the area of the disc brake to that of the brake pad is the co-efficient of "stopping power"....with the weight of the vehicle also a contributing factor...(g)

[Tijeras_Slim]

This usually freezes them in their tracks.

Otherwise, 45ACP 185 JHP or in a revolver .38 Special +P 147 Hydrashock.

[spodefly]

Please forgive my possible ignorance, but I gather that JHP is a brand of ammunition, in which each round has 115 grains (?) of gunpowder? Is 115 grains considered much, or little, or in-between? Thanks.

JHP stands for Jacketed Hollow Point, also known as 'flying ash trays' ... The brand of ammunition I was referring to is actually made by CorBon ... the CorBon +P 115gr JHP specifically ... CorBon makes rounds for law enforcement and military that us civie slobs can also buy. The +P stands for 'increased pressure', meaning that the round is loaded (with propellent/powder) slightly hotter than a typical 9mm round, so it has a higher velocity than a 'normal' 9mm round. The '115gr' is the weight of the bullet itself, not the powder.

+p rounds should only be fired thru higher quality guns in good condition, btw. I have put around 3000 rounds of the +p through my Beretta 92F (and maybe 5000 more rounds that are not +p), and it is holding up well.

[Tahoe3002]

Bought my PT145 right after 9-11-01. The more I shoot the Taurus, the better I like it. (especially when I out-shoot guys with much more expensive pistols.)

Also just got my Terrorist Hunting License...no bag limit.

[RicocheT]

Shot placement is a factor in stopping power. Two to the torso (center of mass) and one to the head. Try to put them all in front so your testimony that you were in fear for your life sounds credible. It helps if the stiff when found has something sharp and shiny in his/her hand.

[Armedanddangerous]

These rules will serve you well.

1. shot placement
2. Shot placement
3. In in the words of Massad Ayoob..air rushing in, and blood rushing out. The secret is to choose the bullet that causes the most bleeding in the target in the shortest amount of time. THAT is what causes the goblin to lose interest in interacting with you and persuades he or she to fall down or go away and fall down.

In my Glock 26, I choose Cor-Bon 115 gr +p+
In my 45 acp Kimber Gold Match, I have a case of Remington 185 Gr +p+ ammunition, that I use sparingly, because I don't think they make it any more.

[epow]

Up until recent years, the general concensus among people who shoot other people in their line of work seemed to be that either the .45acp or the .357 magnum were the rounds to count on when your life is at stake. OTOH, the .40S&W is now the standard police round in the US, and there must be a good reason for that too. The newer .357 SIG is also used by some departments. I have never fired a .40 caliber pistol of any kind myself, but I have friends who believe they're the best thing to come along since smokeless powder.

I wouldn't hesitate to choose a 9mm, or even a .38 with good ammunition, if I were limited to a medium caliber handgun. But since I'm not, I practice regularly with both a .45acp 1911 pistol and a model 66 .357 magnum revolver. It's almost impossible to conceal either of those guns in hot weather clothing, so I admit to carrying a small .38 revolver, or at times an even smaller .380 pistol in summer. My theory is that in the unlikely event that a life threatening confrontation occurs, any gun is better than no gun. So even if I were for some reason restricted to only a .22 or .25 caliber pistol, I would make it a point to have it close at hand whenever possible.

[Hinoki Cypress]

I carry a full 5" frame Kimber .45cal ACP with Corbon +P 165gr JHP hollow-points (1250fps/ 573ftlbs) and also use Sellier & Belloit 230gr as a practice round. Since I wear my shirttail out, concealed carry isn't a problem even in the summer. I still carry my Glock 32/.357sig and use Corbon 165gr for that too, in the appropriate caliber.

That said, and a bit off-topic, I just bought a .50cal Beowulf - http://www.alexanderarms.com/beowulf.html - and I can guarrantee anyone that it'll drop anyone with one shot. Go to the ammo page and see the 325gr and 400gr loads. Their motto is, "If you are going to make a hole, make it as big as possible" is correct. A bit *too big to carry concealed*, though. Blew a piece of 12" x 12" oak lumber into teeny-tiny splinters, though. Awesome stopping power.

[archy]

Have you tried the Taurus PT145? It's a medium sized .45 that holds 10 rounds. In my hand the barrel only sticks out 1.5 inches past my pointy finger when I extend it.

I've had one for about a year now, like it, have better than a thousand rounds fired through it with no problems, and find it carries on an inside-the-trousers belt holster better than most of the cut-down M1911 versions do, [that's not to say that I don't like a M1911 .45, only that I prefer them in a full-size or Commander-sized package.] particularly in the summertime under a T-shirt or golf shirt.

You'll find a great deal of information on the PT145 and other caliber Taurus autos at PT145.com and its certainly worth checking out in detail if you're considering one of these pistols.

[5Madman2]

All the comments you've gotten so far are valid. There is no magic bullet, althought the 45 aficianados will sometimes lead you to believe it is (I avidly shoot 45 ACP). You need to look at your overall situation. How big a gun can you carry based on concealment needs and how well can you shoot the weapons you have. Mass and energy transfer are true, but they mean nothing if you can't hit with what you shoot so shot placement is critcal too. A target hit in a vital area with a .380/.32/9mm will suffer more energy transfer that a target missed with a .44 magnum.

Find a weapon you are comfortable with, get good quality factory hollow point ammunition (Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, Federal Hydra Shok, Winchester SXT)to carry in it. Get some decent target ammo and shoot. A lot. My solution to the shooting a lot is a Dillon 550 progressive re-loader and once a week on the range with my duty weapon and my fun guns

The right gun to have in a crappy situation is the one you've got on you. Make sure you know how to work it and hit the target. Good Luck

[Dan(9698)]

You must also factor in the density of the tread rubber.

[Mulder]

Shot placement is the most important factor.

Kinetic energy is the next most important.

Other folks have complied numbers on the kinetic energy of rounds. 45 caliber and 357SIG are at the top of the list of practical calibers. .40 is close and 9mm is lower. There is a big gap between 9mm and .380.

For that reason, I'd be uncomfortable depending on anything less than 9mm.

[The Coopster]

In theory you could push a .22 fast enough to carry more energy than a .380...

That's right, you can. In fact, they refer to it as the 5.56 NATO round (or .223). It's in the M16/AR15.

And it packs A HELL of a lot more punch than the .380.