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Horowitz: Why is she equivocating about Jack Kennedy anyway? Kennedy was not only not a traitor, he was not even a weak anti-Communist, as she claims.

Treason, page 11:

"John F. Kennedy's pronouncements on Communism could have been spoken by Joe McCarthy. His brother Robert worked for McCarthy."

( page 101)"John F. Kennedy fiercely defended McCarthy. . .in response to a speaker's lighthearted remarks that, unlike the law school, Harvard College could be proud of never having produced either an Alger Hiss or a Joe McCarthy, Kennedy erupted, "How dare you couple the name of a great American patriot with that of a traitor?"

Horowitz:" . . .by refusing to credit the laudable role played by patriotic, anti-Communist liberals like Truman, Kennedy and Humphrey, Coulter has compromised her case . . ."

Treason, page 11:

"There were, admittedly, a few rare and striking exceptions to the left's overall obtuseness to Communist totalitarianism. The Democratic Party was certainly more patriotic then than it has become. Throughtout the sixties, the Democrats could still produce the occasional Scoop Jackson Democrat . (JFK's statments on communism ) could have been spoken by Joe McCarthy . . .for all his flaws, President Harry Truman was a completely different breed than today's Democrats: He unquestionably loved his country

( page 68) . . .Walter Reuther and Hubert Humphrey. . .were far rougher with Communists than McCarthy ever was. . .in 1954 Senator Humphrey introduced a bill that would have outlawed the Communist Party. Outlawed it. That was the year the Senate voted to censure McCarthy. . .

Horowitz: There were many liberals – Scoop Jackson and Jeanne Kirkpatrick among them – who were just as worthy defenders of America and prosecutors of the anti-Communist cause . . .

Treason, page 180:

New York Times columnist Flora Lewis scoffed at Jeane Kirkpatrick's "remarkable" claim...that "the Russians had nearly taken over until the Reagan administration." Where? Lewis demanded to know. As Ambassador Kirkpatrick said in her speech--just a sentence or two later--in the decade preceding Reagan's inauguration, the Soviets had expanded their influence into South Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Angola, Ethiopia, Mozambique, South Yemen, Libya, Syria, Aden, Congo, Madagascar, the Seychelles, Nicaragua and Grenada. Other than that, no place really.

Horowitz:"The problem with Coulter’s book is that she is not willing to concede that McCarthy was, in fact, demagogic in any sense at all, or that that his recklessness injured the anti-Communist cause."

That wasn't the book Ann wanted to write. There are more than a few books available--hundreds probably--which "concede" McCarthy was "demagogic" and "injured the anti-communist cause." If David Horowitz feels the need for another, he should write one himself.

Ann Coulter didn't "concede" he injured the anti-Communist cause because she doesn't believe he did.
Treason Page 70

The rote smirking at McCarthy by conservatives is linked to their own psychological compulsion to snobbery. McCarthy was a popularizer, a brawler. Republican elitists abhor demagogic appeals to working-class Democrats. Fighting like a Democrat is a breech of etiquette worse than using the wrong fork. McCarthy is sniffed at for not playing by Marquis of Queensberry Rules--rules of engagement demanded only of Republicans. Well, without McCarthy, Republicans might be congratulating themselves on their excellent behavior from the gulag right now. He may have been tut-tutted on the golf course, but McCarthy made the American workers' blood boil.

1 posted on 07/11/2003 9:35:43 AM PDT by DPB101
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2 posted on 07/11/2003 9:39:22 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: DPB101
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I learned a lot from reading it.
3 posted on 07/11/2003 9:57:55 AM PDT by americanSoul (Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees. Live Free or Die. I should be in New Hampshire.)
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To: DPB101
Indeed, DPB. Along with those on-target those citations, Ann's references are impeccable, every one. They all check out, and not one is lifted misleadingly out of context.

Please see also Sauce For The Goose.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit the Palace Of Reason:
http://palaceofreason.com

4 posted on 07/11/2003 9:58:30 AM PDT by fporretto (This tagline is programming you in ways that will not be apparent for years. Forget! Forget!)
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To: DPB101
First his attacks a month or so ago on those pesky Christian conservatives who object to the Republicans taking all that lovely gay activist campaign cash just because of their "religious intolerance"---now he takes Ann to task for taking the "McCarthyism" myth to task, something he and Peter Collier also did about fifteen years ago in a book (Destructive Generation) that made much less of a splash than Ann's is making now. Horowitz actually managed to smear Ann in his latest article as indulging in rhetoric similar to the communists, equating her use of the term "functionally treasonous" with the communist chestnut "objectively fascist."

Maybe Dave's returning to his Red roots. Or maybe he just wants to please all his rich Left Coast neocon friends that help keep him living la belle vie in Malibu.

5 posted on 07/11/2003 9:58:53 AM PDT by Map Kernow ("A rat is a dog is a pig is a....DEMOCRAT")
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To: DPB101
I'm going to have to buy that book. Sounds interesting.

My parents always supported McCarthy. However, an article criticizing Coulter's book mentions McCarthy represented SS soldiers in the investigation of the WWII Malmedy Massacre. The link to this article is here.

6 posted on 07/11/2003 10:02:55 AM PDT by jjm2111
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To: DPB101
To me, this entire debate sounds like something out of an insane asylum.
7 posted on 07/11/2003 10:07:07 AM PDT by Scenic Sounds (Summertime!)
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To: DPB101
As someone, I forget who, pointed out yesterday, Neocons don't like this book. That's because people like Horowitz started out as leftists, and hate to admit that they were as wrong back then as they would be to be leftists now.

Ann Coulter certainly uses a lot of sharp, colorful, forceful language, but as the quotations you posted from her book in your comments clearly show, she is always judicious. She doesn't slam someone unless they deserve it; and surely treason deserves more than a wishy-washy response. She really looks at things; she doesn't just assume an attitude toward them. She doesn't go with the crowd.

Horowitz has split with the crowd, but he still can't stand to look at the past with the same eyes he looks at the present. Neither can a lot of neoconservatives--perhaps including Dorothy Rabinowitz of the WSJ, whose work I normally greatly respect.
10 posted on 07/11/2003 10:18:38 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: DPB101
Great counterpoint to Horowitz's rant.
12 posted on 07/11/2003 10:20:23 AM PDT by FateAmenableToChange
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To: DPB101
Huzzah, Bruce Walker!

Disappointing that David didn't really add much useful to the discussion. He might have done better just to keep quiet, but I suspect he's paying back a few favors for old fellow travellers--some of the non-traitors, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

HF

17 posted on 07/11/2003 10:29:51 AM PDT by holden
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To: DPB101
Ann has done a signal service trying to rehabilitate McCarthy, and Horowitz doesn't disagree with her on that point. His point, which I think is a fair one, is that not all Democrats were traitors in the sense Ann implies. I've actively followed American national politics since the late '50s, and remember the Army-McCarthy hearings earlier on. As a graduate student in history, modern US was one of my exam fields, although not my primary specialty. So, not only did I live through the period in question, I have studied it academically. Based on both my personal recollections and academic reading, I think Horowitz is right, and Ann has painted with too broad a brush.

I think a more true book could have been written which suggested that many Democrats from elite backgrounds who were not communists, simply couldn't believe anyone from their sort would actually be a communist. A similar class blindness was also evident in England. Further, I think there was a relatively quiet until the late '60s struggle for the soul of the Democratic party, which was won by those who were truly sympathetic to communism. The old anti-communist Democrats who rallied behind Truman in 1948 and carried the banner through the LBJ era may have been somwhat foolish, but they were not traitors, regardless how misguided they were on domestic policy.

I am no fan of the Kennedys. I think of them as St. John the Martyr, Robert the Dead, and Edward the Pretender. John Kennedy, at least, was probably more in that school than not. I'm not so sure about Robert, whom I regarded in life as an exceptionally dangerous and unscrupulous man. At the risk of sounding ghoulish, I think the nation was far better off that he was removed from the political scene. Teddy, of course, is loved by the left as a Useful Idiot, too stupid to realize how he is being manipulated.

18 posted on 07/11/2003 10:37:03 AM PDT by CatoRenasci (Ceterum Censeo [Gallia][Germania][Arabia] Esse Delendam --- Select One or More as needed)
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To: DPB101
bump
26 posted on 07/11/2003 11:06:01 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: DPB101
The point to me from Horowitz's critique was that the entire democrat party as is today should NOT be looked at as the filty traitors they all are from sins of omission or comission, and that just being a democrat is not in itself an enabler of a 5th column...

Nothing could be farther from the truth...
Horowitz is dazzling with bull sperm instead of speaking the truth simply cogently and to the point, like Ann Coulter does.. I'm not amused... Ann verbally pre-supposes you are intelligent, Horowitz patronizes you with supposed stuff you obviously missed.. garnering brownie points with those Ann Coulter has diced or minced... and adds nothing to the subject..

the boy is still confused from a lifetime of being guilty as charged or worse still is.

30 posted on 07/11/2003 11:16:03 AM PDT by hosepipe
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To: DPB101
"The heart of his concern is that the Democrat Party is indicted as a co-conspirator in Treason."

Isn't this book subtitled: 'Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism'?

I wonder if Horowitz thinks ALL Republicans are conservative?

31 posted on 07/11/2003 11:21:53 AM PDT by dogbrain
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To: DPB101
Very nicely done. Thanks for the analysis.
35 posted on 07/11/2003 11:39:34 AM PDT by reformed_democrat
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To: DPB101
Excellent work debunking the criticisms.
 
I think I saw a thread about Ms. Coulter lauding FReeperesearch on TV (Hardball?). Was that your work?
 
Diotima and I will interview Ms. Coulter next week. (WHOO-HOOOO!)

37 posted on 07/11/2003 11:48:50 AM PDT by AnnaZ (unspunwithannaz.blogspot.com... "It is UNSPUN and it is Unspun, but it is not unspun." -- unspun)
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To: DPB101
I liked how she said that McCarthy made it "not OK to be a communist." I don't know what page. I would venture to say that Ronald Reagan made it not OK to be a liberal... but we're still fighting that battle.
39 posted on 07/11/2003 11:55:19 AM PDT by johnb838 (Understand the root causes of American Anger.)
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To: DPB101
excellent post, ace. This is a Tap-Him-Twice in Center Mass Ping!!!

Juan
40 posted on 07/11/2003 11:55:32 AM PDT by CGVet58 (I still miss my ex-wife... but my aim is improving!)
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To: DPB101
Why is Anne Coulter above reproach?
42 posted on 07/11/2003 12:00:39 PM PDT by GSWarrior
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To: DPB101
David Horowitz is wrong. While many regular people who vote for rats are not treasonous, their leadership has consistently advocated policies that have undermined America at home and abroad.
44 posted on 07/11/2003 12:06:09 PM PDT by RepPhil
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To: DPB101
A much needed, clear, easily understood piece of reportage ! Your addendum is also just great.

Now, if only these threads are read by ALL FREEPERs, who then spread out, all over the USA and sprfead the TRUTH, perhaps then, the fog of decades of vile propaganda will be disspelled.

65 posted on 07/11/2003 2:10:32 PM PDT by nopardons
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