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Iranian Alert -- August 1, 2003 -- LIVE THREAD PING LIST
The Iranian Student Movement Up To The Minute Reports ^ | 8.1.2003 | DoctorZin

Posted on 08/01/2003 12:01:59 AM PDT by DoctorZIn

The regime is working hard to keep the news about the protest movment in Iran from being reported.

From jamming satellite broadcasts, to prohibiting news reporters from covering any demonstrations to shutting down all cell phones and even hiring foreign security to control the population, the regime is doing everything in its power to keep the popular movement from expressing its demand for an end of the regime.

These efforts by the regime, while successful in the short term, do not resolve the fundamental reasons why this regime is crumbling from within.

Iran is a country ready for a regime change. If you follow this thread you will witness, I believe, the transformation of a nation. This daily thread provides a central place where those interested in the events in Iran can find the best news and commentary.

Please continue to join us here, post your news stories and comments to this thread.

Thanks for all the help.

DoctorZin


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: iran; iranianalert; protests; studentmovement
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To: DoctorZIn
A Response to Mr. Rafsanjani's Diatribes

SMCCDI (Public Statement)
Aug 1, 2003

Mr. Rafsanjani personifies everything that is vile and is reviled about the Mullahs and the brutal theocratic regime that has occupied Iran for the last twenty-four years!

On July 28, 2003, Radio Free Europe, under the headline: “Rafsanjani Reportedly in Secret Talks with U.S.,” quoting “Al-Sharq al-Awsat,” reported that: “On 23 July Iranian and American officials met on the sidelines of a recent seminar in London on ‘Investment Opportunities in Iran’ that was organized by the Royal Institute for International Affairs.”

“Representing the Iranian side were individuals acting as envoys of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and Expediency Council Chairman Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani. The Iranian envoys tried to convey the impression that only Hashemi-Rafsanjani can secure acceptance of Washington's demands, and this would be done in exchange for U.S. backing of Rafsanjani's bid for the 2005 presidential election. The U.S. side -- reportedly represented by an unofficial White House envoy named Kurt Wilden, an anonymous American ‘close to national security adviser Condoleezza Rice,’ and an anonymous ‘senior U.S. intelligence officer’ -- was unenthusiastic about the offer and about such secret dialogues.”

While we cannot independently verify the veracity of the report, we are extremely disappointed and particularly perplexed. We are disillusioned by even the occurrence of such meetings, and we are, indeed, puzzled: Since the United States has recognized the Regime for the terrorist that it is, why even pursue such “secret dialogues?” Yet, we are heartened by what is reported about the ‘unenthusiastic’ attitude of the American side. At the same time, we instantly recognize the modus operandi of the infamous traitor Mr. Rafsanjani and the entire gang of the Mullahs: To preserve their hold on power, they would do anything! Moreover, such reports further highlight, and expose to the world, what is so familiar to us, the cunning and corrupt, treacherous and repugnant character of the notorious Mr. Rafsanjani!

The original purpose of this article is, primarily, a direct response to Mr. Rafsanjani’s recent diatribes and those who have steadfastly supported him and the Islamic Republic. However, we suggest that Mr. Wilden, and others who are contemplating future “secret dialogues” with the Islamic Republic, to heed and pay close attention to the sentiments of the Iranian people regarding Mr. Rafsanjani; for, without a doubt, he is the single most despicable of all the Mullahs in the brutal theocratic regime that has occupied Iran for the last twenty-four years!

In general, during the last two decades, we have refrained from dignifying the drivels and diatribes of Mr. Rafsanjani or his benefactors and ardent supporters like Mr. Gary Sick by a direct response. Our integrity prevents us from so doing. Sadly, we have learned that, by ignoring them, at the expense of Iran and Iranians, the world has been kept in the dark about the true nature of this barbaric and brutal regime.

Throughout these years, every effort has been made by many to cover the atrocities of the Islamic Republic; apparently, it was deemed necessary to enable these traitors, this Regime, to accomplish their mission. Thanks to them, their masters continue to pursue and achieve what they set out to do, and their servants, those terrorists of Hezbollah and Palestine, line their pockets with the riches of Iran!

We will not remain silent anymore! No, no more, absolutely, no more! Unfortunately Iran continues to be occupied by this loathsome gang of corrupt Mullahs and Iranians for too long have been silenced and silent! It has been twenty-four years! We have paid dearly, with our blood and treasure! No more!

The ignorant Mullahs of the Islamic Republic spout nonsense and their paid agents or self-proclaimed patrons like Mr. Sick make every effort to sanitize their utterance and present it to the world trying desperately to portray them as humans. Yet, their stench is so foul that even their masters and supporters cannot flush any more!

Faced with this repulsive regime, we have learned that we cannot continue to simply uphold the moral high ground and not defend ourselves. Since it is impossible to raise this abhorrent and corrupt theocracy to a decent human level, regrettably, we are forced to stoop to their level. Since we are pushed into such a predicament, for the liberation of Iran and for the sake of our nation, for our blessed motherland, if we have to lower ourselves to their level, so be it! So be it!

Iran is occupied and we are a nation under siege. We need to defend ourselves!
Strategically, it is believed that, the best defense is a good offense and, furthermore, the best offense is a relentless one. So, we mean to be and shall be relentless. Silent and silence no more!

And relentless we shall be! Unyielding we will be! This we promise, we will silence Mr. Rafsanjani forever!

Mr. Rafsanjani personifies everything that is vile and is reviled about the Mullahs. When, recently, “Forbes Magazine” published their article, under the title of “Millionaire Mullahs,” they had Rafsanjani’s photo on the cover. Perhaps, because they, too, found that he is the greediest of all the Islamic Regime’s clerics. Yet, inadvertently, they have presented the poster-child for what the Iranians refer to as “Akhoond,” the Persian word for Mullah. In fact, it is an excellent choice; for, no Mullah is more contemptible than Rafsanjani, and none epitomizes best those special traits and characteristics that are so unique to the breed of the Mullahs!

Yet, Mr. Gary Sick, former U.S. National Security Council staff member and Columbia University professor had previously declared Mr. Rafsanjani as “a highly popular figure.” This supposed eminent scholar on Iran doesn’t even know that for Iranians Mr.
Rafsanjani is not only the most despised man but also the most despicable “Akhoond.” For those familiar with Iranian culture this should speak volumes. Evidently Mr. Sick is clueless!

To him we say, Professor Sick, as a scholar on Iran, this rich and ancient civilization, you must know the connotations that the word, “Akhoond” evokes for the Iranians, if not, permit us to be your teacher and educate you about the adjectives that the word denotes: Corrupt, cunning, craven, greedy, pervert, parasite, illiterate, loud-mouth, long-winded and deceitful are just a few among many others!

Since their advent, throughout Iran’s history, the breed of Mullahs has always been the instrument of foreign powers and the root of backwardness of the country. Through them absolute pillage and plunder of the nation’s riches are assured and ignorance of the masses is guaranteed.

For those of you who are not familiar with Mr. Sick, he is previously from the State Department and National Security Council specialist on Iran during the Carter Administration. It is said that the “Islamization” of Iran was his brainchild. He fervently believed that Iran is more of an Islamic country than a nationalist nation. The inept foreign policies of the Carter Administration, most probably with the advise of Mr. Sick, handed Iran to these terrorists and thus the total destruction and ruination of the land.

Mr. Sick consistently justifies the brutal Islamic Regime and tries desperately to humanize it. Sometime ago, in another one of his ‘educated’ comments he declared Khatami to be “a reformer with an outspoken commitment to civil society, social justice, the rule of law and expanded freedom.” Mr. Khatami! The same Mr. Khatami, that incompetent, ignorant, ineffective and discredited charlatan and the plagiarist to boot!

And more often than not, as if on cue, thousands of miles away, what Rafsanjani and his ilk proclaim, Mr. Sick reverberates. When the Mullahs in Iran called the courageous students, who bear the brunt of the wrath of the Regime, “Hooligans,” Mr. Sick referred to them as: “a rag-tag bunch.”

Mr. Sick, “rag-tag bunch” is that bunch of criminals you supported and helped put in power, the ignorant and corrupt Mullahs of your envisioned “Islamic Republic.”

Mr. Sick, from the start, every observation, every assessment, every evaluation, every comment you have made in reference to Iran and your Mullahs is off the mark; not even close! As a renowned scholar and an educator on Iran are you that ignorant about the country or your arrogance prevents you from admitting how uninformed you have been all along? Mr. Sick, give it up! Mr. Sick, nobody, could justify what this evil regime has done. Not even you!

This is the man who is the acting director of the Middle East Institute and a professor at one of the most prestigious universities in the world and most probably is educating the present and future Foreign Service Officers of the United States as specialists on Iran. Any wonder United States’ foreign policy regarding Iran is always so incoherent and incompetent? Look who is the teacher!

After the outpouring of the latest demonstrations by the students and the freedom-loving Iranians, apparently, Mr. Rafsanjani, in one of his most recent “Friday Sermons,” aka, “Friday Circus,” had the impertinence and the insolence to claim and boast: “The regime did not even have to resort to a massive eight million-strong Basij force or even the Pasdaran.”

Mr. Rafsanjani, indubitably, Iranians know your Basiji and the Pasdaran up close and personal. They are their torturers and slayers. The same Basiji and Pasdaran that are the treasonous and paid Iranians or the hired foreign terrorist and mercenaries, the backbone of the Islamic Republic; the very assassins and murderers that you and the regime unleash on the students and the nation!

Through his shameless hubris, by his sheer stupidity and in his own twisted words, Mr. Rafsanjani unwittingly is admitting that in order to survive the Regime has to resort to the brutality of its hired terrorists. How ironic, indeed! Mr. Rafsanjani, by such statements you have confessed and reiterated what Iranians have been screaming for two decades: That the only way the regime survives and controls the oppressed masses is through fear and brute force executed by the hired domestic and foreign terrorists!

Furthermore, Rafsanjani continued his gibberish and cautioned the students and the young people “not to be deceived” and be “more alert and careful and cause no more trouble for the Iranian nation.”

Mr. Rafsanjani, you, you speak of others’ deception? You are the master of chicanery and fraud! Those young students are wise to your deceptions and will “not be deceived” by you any longer. Your charades and trickery of diverting the havoc you have wreaked by inventing foreign schemes and foes doesn’t cut it any more. Iranians know full well that the only foreign conspiracy is the entire occupying bunch of criminals of the Islamic Republic and its alien terrorists!

As for the mention of our beloved Iran, Mr. Rafsanjani, we warn you; we forbid you, you, along with the rest of the gang of traitors, don’t you dare, never again utter or make any reference to the sacred and blessed land of “Iran” or “Iranian nation.” You are not worthy of the name Iran. Just refer to yourselves as who and what you are: the Islamists terrorists that you have named “Islamic Republic.” You are an occupying gang of mobsters and the name Iran is too hallowed to even be whispered by you traitors!

To top it all, Rafsanjani, with his usual foul mouth, had referred to those brave students fighting for their nation, freedom, honor and dignity as “Cowardly.” Now, we will maintain our decorum and merely say: Mr. Rafsanjani, you carry the biggest disgrace, anyone can ever bestow upon you, in your own title: Whether you are called Ayatollah or Mullah, you are an “Akhoond.” In Persian, there has never been, and, especially now, never will be a greater insult than that!

Having said that, we feel compelled to address you more directly and add: Mr. Rafsanjani, you pathetic gutless wonder, you spineless terrorists, from the first moment Iran was handed to you, everyone of you, every Mullah and his filthy brood, you have been walking around surrounded by a corps of bodyguards and arms. Never before in the history of our land government officials ever had one single bodyguard. It is you, the occupying gang, out of fear for your miserable lives that have to resort to such schemes. Even after twenty-four years, not only you don’t feel any safer, nowadays, a private army and militia encircle every single one of you. And, you have the gall to call those courageous students, who are facing your armed assassins with their bare hands, cowards?

Mr. Rafsanjani, we will silence you!

Twenty-four years ago, out of their own miserable weaknesses and inferiorities, echoing the leader of their Islamic Republic, Mr. Rafsanjani was among the first to declare and claim that the reason Islam finds it necessary for women to cover their hair is that the reflection of the light on the locks of women causes the opposite sex discomfort!

The world has moved on into the twenty-first century; in the last century mankind walked on the moon and landed safely back on earth, the genetic code was cracked, but, alas, in our cultured land, in one of the cradles of civilization, these perverts, calling themselves “Islamic Republic,” are lamenting about their discomfort caused by the reflection of the light on the female tresses!!

Can’t you hear our mournful screams? This is the nature and character of this deformed, twisted, barbaric and brutal regime that has kept Iran in its grip. This is what we are facing! This is what we have to contend with!

They have shamed us, they have humiliated a nation, and we shout again and yet again: The decent and cultured Iranian nation is not to be confused with these sick demented Islamists monsters!

Mr. Sick, are you honestly that ignorant about these perverts? Or, do you just refuse to see and admit how sick and depraved they are? Or, do you even recognize it? Perhaps, you even find them normal!

We promise this, we will prevail! We will silence them!

In deference and with admiration for the beloved and brave women of Iran, the “lionesses” of the land of Arya, it is only befitting that, when the time comes, they would implement the verdict they have envisioned and exact the appropriate punishment for these perverts--a dose of their own medicine:

Rafsanjani wrapped in a veil paraded for the entire world to observe while Iranian women with their beautiful almond eyes, their long tresses blowing in the wind, and shining in the light while diffusing the rays, blinding the eyes of those degenerate Mullahs, one by one with their fists would smack him right in the mouth!

Their tight fists clenched with national pride, steeled by their fury, and in the name of their fallen heroes, their murdered sons, daughters, sisters, brothers and mates will silence Mr. Rafsanjani forever!

The "Student Movement Coordination Committee for Democracy in Iran" (SMCCDI)

http://www.daneshjoo.org/generalnews/article/publish/article_1513.shtml
21 posted on 08/01/2003 1:00:30 PM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Pan_Yans Wife; fat city; freedom44; Tamsey; Grampa Dave; PhiKapMom; ...
A Response to Mr. Rafsanjani's Diatribes

SMCCDI (Public Statement)
Aug 1, 2003

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/956243/posts?page=21#21

"If you want on or off this Iran ping list, Freepmail me”
22 posted on 08/01/2003 1:02:01 PM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Wow! Great rant!

They didnt pull any punches, did they...
23 posted on 08/01/2003 1:11:06 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 ("The Prez is as focused as a doberman on a hambone!"---Dennis Miller)
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To: DoctorZIn
I'd like to give this Mr. Sick (and what a fitting name) a piece of my mind, too!

24 posted on 08/01/2003 1:11:52 PM PDT by nuconvert
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To: DoctorZIn
"The U.S. side -- reportedly represented by an unofficial White House envoy named Kurt Wilden, an anonymous American ‘close to national security adviser Condoleezza Rice,’ and an anonymous ‘senior U.S. intelligence officer’ -- was unenthusiastic about the offer and about such secret dialogues.”

I'm not convinced this occurred. But obviously the U.S. wasn't very interested to begin with. Look at the level of people who were there. (supposedly). I think the students are overreacting on this point. (something I never do)(pfft)
25 posted on 08/01/2003 1:25:54 PM PDT by nuconvert
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To: nuconvert
I'm not convinced this occurred.

I anticipate that the meeting took place, and that the main questions were the nukes and al Qaeda. Expect some more rattling until there will be a behind-the-scene agreement on these two issues.
26 posted on 08/01/2003 1:58:55 PM PDT by AdmSmith
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To: DoctorZIn
VOLUNTEER MILITIA SEEN AS KEY TO FUTURE POWER STRUGGLE IN IRAN

Ardeshir Moaven
A EurasiaNet Commentary
EURASIA INSIGHT August 1, 2003

Iran’s myriad social and economic problems are growing worse in large part because of the country’s contradictory political system, in which unelected conservative-leaning bodies can overrule moves made by the executive and legislative branches of government. Some conservatives, whose political fortunes have been on the rise for several years, now believe they have found a possible ally needed to defeat their reformist rivals – the Basij militia.

Conservatives have a two-tiered strategy to achieve victory in the ongoing power struggle, according to several reform-minded observers. One approach they characterize as "soft" and the other "hard." The soft approach relies on continued voter apathy, as seen in the recent municipal elections [For background see the Eurasia Insight archive]. Conservatives believe that low voter turnout in parliamentary elections could pave the way for ballot-box successes that leave them in control of the legislature.

At the same time, conservatives feel they need a force capable of handling tough tasks, including containing demonstrations and other expressions of discontent. That’s where the Basij militia comes in. The Basij militia, which emerged shortly after 1979’s Islamic revolution, now comprises as many as a million members. The group recruits disaffected or dispossessed youth from schools, neighborhoods, workplaces and villages; members receive training in small-arms combat from conservative agencies. In 1992, parliament formally authorized the Basij to enforce moral codes in the streets. While reformists in President Mohammed Khatami’s administration have tried to promote more transparent policing, they have never rebuked the Basij.

So far the conservatives’ soft approach seems to be going relatively well. Conservatives view the current disorganization within the reformist camp as providing an opportunity for a political rout. Accordingly, conservatives are intensifying direct pressure on reformists. Mohamed Reza Khatami, deputy head of the parliament (and the president’s brother), has confirmed that "Parallel Security Centers" have embarked on creating large files on leading reformist activists for the purpose of prosecution.

A foundation is also being prepared for a conservative comeback at the polls. The Council of Guardians – a conservative body that vets political candidates – has successfully stalled two bills that President Khatami proposed in September 2002, which could open elections to more candidates. [For background see the Eurasia Insight archives]. Many observers expect that reformists will effectively be barred from parliamentary elections this winter. According to these people, conservatives will issue their own slate of economic and social reforms and may loosen some stringent rules.

While hoping for electoral triumph, conservatives are concurrently preparing for tough action. Indeed, many conservatives consider the threat of instability to be very real. Such instability could arise from several sources, including a pressure campaign mounted by the United States. Some believe unrest could be triggered by another episode like the death of Zahra Kazemi, a Canadian-Iranian photojournalist who suffered a fatal brain hemorrhage after guards detained her for taking pictures of protests outside a large Tehran prison. [For additional information see the Eurasia Insight archive].

Any conservative effort to crack down on civil liberties and undertake mass arrests would require military or paramilitary backing. A longtime observer of Iranian politics, who spoke on condition of anonymity, sees the Basij militia as a crucial plank of the conservative "hard" strategy. "To a great extent," the observer told EurasiaNet recently, "whoever wins the hearts and minds of the Basij can determine the course of developments."

The extent of Basij militia loyalty to the conservative cause remains in doubt. Certainly there are many points of common interest that push the Basij towards the conservative camp, but the militia in the past has exhibited an independent streak. For example, during and after the crackdown that followed this summer’s street demonstrations, several Basij branches condemned the involvement of plain-clothes vigilantes inside university campuses. [For background see the Eurasia Insight archives]. The Tehran University Basij Organization reportedly lambasted a lenient corruption verdict in March as "a travesty of justice" and an "affront to the memories of the martyrs."

Conservatives may be betting that Basij dissatisfaction with Khatami’s administration will help cement an anti-reformist alliance. Some observers believe a pretext would be needed to formally push the Basij into becoming the enforcers of the conservative agenda. However, such pretexts – such as a public reformist denunciation of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei, to whom the Basij are fiercely loyal – has not materialized.

Editor’s Note: Ardeshir Moaveni is a freelance journalist who specializes in Iranian and Afghanistani affairs.

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav080103.shtml


27 posted on 08/01/2003 2:03:57 PM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Pan_Yans Wife; fat city; freedom44; Tamsey; Grampa Dave; PhiKapMom; ...
VOLUNTEER MILITIA SEEN AS KEY TO FUTURE POWER STRUGGLE IN IRAN

Ardeshir Moaven
A EurasiaNet Commentary
EURASIA INSIGHT August 1, 2003

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/956243/posts?page=27#27

"If you want on or off this Iran ping list, Freepmail me”
28 posted on 08/01/2003 2:05:23 PM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: nuconvert
Mr. Gary Sick, former U.S. National Security Council staff member

Whose administration is he from? Clinton's?

29 posted on 08/01/2003 2:08:13 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife ("Life isn't fair. It's fairer than death, is all.")
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
I believe he was with the Carter Administration.
He was the architect of their Iranian policy.
30 posted on 08/01/2003 2:15:53 PM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
Gary Sick served on the National Security Council staff under Presidents Ford, Carter, and Reagan. He was the principal White House aide for Iran during the Iranian Revolution and the hostage crisis and is the author of two books on U.S.-Iranian relations.


http://ci.columbia.edu/ci/eseminars/1363_detail.html
31 posted on 08/01/2003 2:19:08 PM PDT by AdmSmith
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To: AdmSmith; DoctorZIn
Thank you.
32 posted on 08/01/2003 2:29:11 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife ("Life isn't fair. It's fairer than death, is all.")
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To: DoctorZIn
IRAN SCRAPS SATELLITE DEAL WITH RUSSIA.

Rajab Safarov, general director of the Center for Contemporary Iranian Studies and the head of the iran.ru news agency, said on 29 July that Iran has decided against purchasing a communications satellite from Russia, Ekho Moskvy reported. The Russian Foreign Ministry first recommended purchasing the satellite, known as Zohreh, from a state-run company called Aviaeksport, while Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov recommended the Intersputnik company to the Iranians. This behavior surprised the Iranians, according to Safarov, leading to the cancellation of the deal. "Iran is a leader of the Islamic world, and losing the Iranian market is a serious blow to Russia's interests," he said. BS

source RFE/RL NEWSLINE Vol. 7, No. 145, Part III, 1 August 2003

It is not easy when one company offers a high bribe.
33 posted on 08/01/2003 2:31:56 PM PDT by AdmSmith
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To: nuconvert
http://mehr.org/nro.htm

A scathing piece against Gary Sick, if you are interested.
34 posted on 08/01/2003 2:34:33 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife ("Life isn't fair. It's fairer than death, is all.")
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To: DoctorZIn
IRANIAN PRESIDENT AND PARLIAMENT TO DISCUSS LEGISLATIVE DEADLOCK.

The deadlock between the Iranian parliament and the Guardians Council over two pieces of legislation that would strengthen the executive branch appears to be causing tensions in the already fragile reformist coalition. Vice President for Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Mohammad Ali Abtahi said in the 29 July issue of the government newspaper "Iran" that there will be a meeting of the cabinet and members of the legislature on 3 August to enhance the two sides' cooperation.

On the other hand, Ardabil parliamentary representative Nureddin Pirmoazen said he and 24 of his colleagues have summoned President Hojatoleslam Mohammad Khatami to the legislature on 3 August to answer their questions about the current situation, ISNA reported on 30 July. BS

source: RFE/RL NEWSLINE Vol. 7, No. 145, Part III, 1 August 2003
35 posted on 08/01/2003 2:35:20 PM PDT by AdmSmith
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To: DoctorZIn
IRANIAN STUDENTS SENTENCED TO JAIL.

Nine students from Ilam University have received jail sentences after a closed-door trial, ILNA reported on 30 July. Six of the students received three-year sentences for insulting Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, two received one-year sentences for unspecified reasons, and a third student received an 18-month sentence for acting against national security. BS

source RFE/RL NEWSLINE Vol. 7, No. 145, Part III, 1 August 2003
36 posted on 08/01/2003 2:37:28 PM PDT by AdmSmith
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
Thanks. Sorry. My computer hiccupped. Had to reboot.
37 posted on 08/01/2003 2:47:59 PM PDT by nuconvert
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To: nuconvert
Happens to the best of us. :)
38 posted on 08/01/2003 2:56:12 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife ("Life isn't fair. It's fairer than death, is all.")
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To: AdmSmith
This sh#t has to stop. (pardon my #)
39 posted on 08/01/2003 2:58:20 PM PDT by nuconvert
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To: DoctorZIn
I don't know who's more delusional: Mr. Moavan or the person who gave him the info. for this article.
40 posted on 08/01/2003 3:03:54 PM PDT by nuconvert
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