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Getting a glimpse at SCO's evidence
CNET news.com ^ | August 19, 2003 | Lisa M. Bowman

Posted on 08/19/2003 7:39:56 AM PDT by Joe Bonforte

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Looks like the SCO case was not as simple as some of the Linux folks originally made out. It's beginning to look quite complex.

And, before the Linux guys point this out, I might as well get it out of the way: Yes, Microsoft is a major beneficiary. The longer and more confused the case becomes, the more Microsoft benefits from it.

I've stated before that I don't believe in the conspiracy theory that Microsoft is pulling the strings at SCO. I think SCO came up with this whole thing on their own. But I'm sure the execs at Microsoft were pleased when they heard about SCO's plans.

1 posted on 08/19/2003 7:39:56 AM PDT by Joe Bonforte
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To: Joe Bonforte
The SCO lawsuites and Oracle's hostile bid for PeopleSoft are turning the IT industry into 2003's spectator's sport.
2 posted on 08/19/2003 7:42:24 AM PDT by magellan
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To: Joe Bonforte
I'll go to freeBSD before ever handing a dime over to SCO. Real simple.
3 posted on 08/19/2003 7:44:51 AM PDT by martianagent
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To: rdb3; Nick Danger
*
4 posted on 08/19/2003 7:45:59 AM PDT by dighton (NLC™)
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To: Joe Bonforte
I think M$ has more of a hand in it than we are lead to believe. M$ started worrying about their server share a year or so ago, looks like this may be part of the solution to me.

What I don't understand is the Linux guys have offered to fix the problem by removing SCO code and replacing it with open source. Last I heard SCO wouldn't identify the code they claim ownership of to allow removal. If that's correct, I don't think SCO has a leg to stand on.
5 posted on 08/19/2003 7:49:10 AM PDT by steve50
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To: Joe Bonforte
After viewing the code, Don Price, general manager of Price Data Systems, said he was surprised at the volume that was allegedly copied. "It's compelling," he said. "Some people were either extremely sloppy, or copied and thought no one would go after them."

This shows absolutely nothing about what was copied from where, only that a common source was somehow involved.

6 posted on 08/19/2003 7:51:01 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Joe Bonforte
The man, an exhibitor on the show floor who asked that his name not be used, said that SCO's hands aren't clean either, because the company has probably taken code from other sources and incorporated it into its products. "It looks to me like there's been a lot of cross-pollination" between Unix and Linux, said the attendee, who jokingly called SCO's legal saga "As the Stomach Turns."

If UNIX has copied from Linux, then the FSF has a cause of claim against SCO.

7 posted on 08/19/2003 7:52:58 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: steve50
What I don't understand is the Linux guys have offered to fix the problem by removing SCO code and replacing it with open source.

I think I can explain SCO's point of view on that. Suppose you were the author of a book, and another book turned up in the bookstores with portions of your book included, but with no acknowledgement or payment to you. You confront the author/editor, who says, "I'm sure it was accidental. Just tell me the parts that we copied, and we'll rewrite those."

In your mind, does that absolve the author or editor from responsibility for plagarism? Keep in mind that the originally printed books are going to be out there no matter what.

Similarly, if SCO has a copyright-infringement case, then even if Linux is changed today, there will be many copies of Linux still out there. And just saying, "Hey, it was all an accident" does not absolve those who appropriated intellectual property.

The big problem here, and the biggest difference from the book case posited above, is that no one owns Linux in any meaningful sense. Therefore, there is no easy way to assign responsibility for copyright infringement (or any other liability issues). Whether the Linux folks want to admit it or not, this is a serious flaw in Linux for business users. (Personal users don't have any realistic concern because it's not economic to sue them.)

8 posted on 08/19/2003 8:05:44 AM PDT by Joe Bonforte
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To: HiTech RedNeck
If UNIX has copied from Linux, then the FSF has a cause of claim against SCO.

If that can be proved, you are absolutely correct. I presume IBM's lawyers are trying to find evidence for that right now.

9 posted on 08/19/2003 8:07:23 AM PDT by Joe Bonforte
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To: Joe Bonforte
Many attendees of the conference are longtime SCO fans
and thus not likely to have any bias...?
10 posted on 08/19/2003 8:10:22 AM PDT by Eala (When politicians speak of children, count the spoons. - National Review Editors)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Revelations of these types are exactly like the demonstrations that confidence operators use to sell perpetual motion machines to the marks. Lots of drama, little substance, and never ever let an expert get a close look.

Until SCO releases the code that it claims infringes so it can be compared to the Linux and BSD and ??? CVS databases they are just hawking FUD to pump up their stock price. Darl should put up or shut up.

And I for one am so impressed with the statements of the SCO resellers.
11 posted on 08/19/2003 8:12:51 AM PDT by Rifleman
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To: Joe Bonforte
But IBM is the one who copied the code (supposedly) into the kernel, Linus and the community as a whole would be happy to remove it and that would slove the problem.

What this article does not mention is that much of the copied code is being challenged to be covered by IBM Patents..

12 posted on 08/19/2003 8:14:29 AM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: Joe Bonforte
Here I am in the heart of SCO country and I don't have a clue as to what the S-C-O initials stand for.
Can you help me Joe?
13 posted on 08/19/2003 8:14:43 AM PDT by KateUTWS (Firmly ensconced in Conservative country)
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To: KateUTWS
SCO originally stood for Santa Cruz Operation.
14 posted on 08/19/2003 8:17:22 AM PDT by Joe Bonforte
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To: Joe Bonforte
As a matter of civil law, the plaintiff (SCO) has the duty to mitigate its losses. It can't hide information from the alleged infringer if to do so would exacerbate the damages.
15 posted on 08/19/2003 8:19:48 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: KateUTWS
Santa Cruz Operations
16 posted on 08/19/2003 8:21:00 AM PDT by microgood (They will all die......most of them.)
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To: Joe Bonforte
It's a more complex problem than I thought. How did SCO get in Linux to start with. I can't see Linux stealing a copyrighted product when they seem able to replace it with open source so easily.

I also don't understand the refusal of SCO to identify their code for removal. Even if previuos versions are liabile, I would think the Linux distributers have a right to remove SCO and market a new true open source version. Maybe they are just waiting for the courts to rule.
17 posted on 08/19/2003 8:24:08 AM PDT by steve50
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To: Joe Bonforte
I think I can explain SCO's point of view on that. Suppose you were the author of a book, and another book turned up in the bookstores with portions of your book included, but with no acknowledgement or payment to you. You confront the author/editor, who says, "I'm sure it was accidental. Just tell me the parts that we copied, and we'll rewrite those."

This is called begging the question. You assume that some of the code was copied from SCOs IP to Linux. SCO asserts this but has produced no evidence. I could assert that I am Marie Queen of Romania but I would still be a Missouri redneck.

In your mind, does that absolve the author or editor from responsibility for plagarism? Keep in mind that the originally printed books are going to be out there no matter what.

Similarly, if SCO has a copyright-infringement case, then even if Linux is changed today, there will be many copies of Linux still out there. And just saying, "Hey, it was all an accident" does not absolve those who appropriated intellectual property.

Again, begging the question with a strawman added. No one is suggesting that any copying was accidental (if it exists) or that it would be ok if it were. If SCO has IP infringed by the Linux code, they are probably entitled to compenstion for actual damages. If any.

The big problem here, and the biggest difference from the book case posited above, is that no one owns Linux in any meaningful sense. Therefore, there is no easy way to assign responsibility for copyright infringement (or any other liability issues). Whether the Linux folks want to admit it or not, this is a serious flaw in Linux for business users. (Personal users don't have any realistic concern because it's not economic to sue them.)

Horse apples. The linux source and its evolution is as well documented as any such activity can be. The CVS archives contain records of every change ever made (well, after Linus released the first versions) and they are publicly readable.

18 posted on 08/19/2003 8:32:48 AM PDT by Rifleman
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To: HiTech RedNeck
It can't hide information from the alleged infringer if to do so would exacerbate the damages.

I believe the article mentioned that anyone who wanted to see some of the evidence could do so if they signed a non-disclosure. So it is possible for any potential defendents to see if SCO has a prima facie case.

I think the damages are presumably for past actions, and hiding information on the details of the case doesn't exacerbate that. SCO has already made an offer to the defendents to come clean. If defendents believe they have no liability, then they will find out the rest of the information during the discovery process for the court case.

So I don't see where SCO is exacerbating any damages. It is merely preventing those who have presumably infringed in the past from hiding that infringement before SCO sues them.

By the way, this analysis doesn't mean I'm a cheerleader for SCO. I think their offer for licensing for Linux users was preposterously high. But I also think that from a legal standpoint, if they can prove massive copying of their intellectual property into Linux, then Linux users are in deep trouble, since they will have to bear the responsibility for using that copyrighted code.

It may still turn out that the alleged infringements are minor and inconsequential. If so, then SCO deserves all the scorn the Linux people have aimed at them, and they deserve to be heavily counter-sued. But I don't think any of us have access to enough information to decide whether SCO's case is a good one or not.

19 posted on 08/19/2003 8:38:14 AM PDT by Joe Bonforte
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To: Joe Bonforte
So it is possible for any potential defendents to see if SCO has a prima facie case.

Only if it agrees, in effect, to be barred from the Linux business forevermore. No, plaintiffs cannot play games like that.

20 posted on 08/19/2003 8:40:42 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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