Posted on 05/23/2004 12:03:34 PM PDT by Lilllabettt
Hi everybody! I'm a pretty well-addicted lurker here at the Religion Forum, and I always enjoy the bantering and even the fist fights. Yesterday at Confession grumpy, fatty Father omitted the Act of Contrition and changed the words of Absolution. Today at Mass, when Consecration came, Father elevated a bowl full of unleavened bread, instead of the host itself. Then we had a bunch of guitar playing girls do interpretive dances up on the alter. By the time the army of Extraordinary MInsters of the Eucharist stomped up on "stage" (I swear this was more of a performance than a Mass,) I had already decided: I've had it up to here. Time to abandon tubby and his sinking ship for another parish. Anyone know of an orthodox Roman Catholic parish in the Cleveland/ Akron area my sister and I could attend? Some place in union with Rome where the faithful do NOT come to church dressed for the beach. This might be a little tough, seeing how the diocsese is ruled by the "we're queer we're here get used to it" bishop, Anthony Pilla. But if anyone can do it, the militants at Free Republic can! Thanks in advance, guys! You're the best.
"When I see "diocese of Richmond" it is like a red flag to a bull."
Ha! Thanks for the sympathy. I've know for a long time that this diocese was in trouble, but I've believed up until now that we were receiving the true Body and Blood of our Lord. Now I question whether our pastor has even the true "intent" in the consecration, regardless of the invalid matter.
"Meanwhile Protestants were encouraged to receive and our priest gave communion to a protestant minister who had concelebrated the so called mass."
That happened in my parish as well. The Protestant Minister did not concelebrate, but came to Mass most Sundays (he was on his third marriage to a Catholic who was on her second!) and received Communion. When this minister died, the Pastor said a funeral Mass for him! Everyone who attended received Communion.
Thanks for the info on the Maronite Church in Roanoke. It's about two hours away on the Interstate -- a little far for every week. I'm going to try a closer Novus Ordo parish next Sunday, but if that does not pan out, the drive to Roanoke will be worth it. In fact, I will make it a point to visit the Maronite Church -- NYer has spoken so highly of her experience and has really whetted my appetite for the real thing.
"What I don't understand is why the Pope is appointing a clone of Sullivan to the diocese of Richmond. The people have been crying out for relief for years and DiLorenzo is who they get? I am dumbfounded!"
I guess if we could answer that question a lot of the mystery of what's happening to the Catholic Church would be solved. Our new pastor and our new bishop are both worse than what we had previously. I'm experiencing it and still almost can't believe it.
I think you should probably find a church where you learn to not attack people on the basis on their physical appearance. Just a thought.
Two hours is quite a commute! Actually, there are 2 Maronite Catholic churches in VA - Glen Allen and Roanoke. There are also two Byzantine (Ruthenian & Ukrainian Rite) Catholic Churchs in Richmond. You can find a more detailed list for the state of VA at this link.
The Unofficial Directory of Eastern Catholic Churches in Virginia (VA)
Just keep in mind that if you do decide to attend an Eastern Rite church, the first experience may be disorienting. When I attended the Maronite Church the first time, I kept wondering why the gospel was read in English and Arabic. You should attend a liturgy at least 3 times before making a determination.
Many people forget - or do not realize - that Christianity came from Judaism. It is from Jewish roots that the church of Antioch sprung. To this day, the Maronite Church retains its Jewish roots more than any other Catholic rite, as evidenced by its use of Aramaic/Syriac and by the prayers which remain faithful to Semantic and Old Testament forms.
The Maronite liturgy begins with calling on God's mercy, whereas the Latin Rite liturgy begins with "let us call to mind our sins." We also acknowledge our sinfulness, but greater stress is laid on God's mercy. As one prayer says, "Your mercy, O Lord, is greater than the weight of the mountains..."
The Triasagion (Qadeeshat Alaho) is the first prayer that is sung in Aramaic, and it is sung three times in honor of the Holy Trinity. It is normally sung facing East. (The Trisagion is only just beginning to make its way into the Western Rites. You will find it at the end of the Divine Mercy Chaplet - "Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One - Have Mercy On Us").
The Maronite rite has over eighty Eucharistic Prayers, called Anaphorae. Most were composed by different saints, including St. James (the oldest prayer), the Apostles, St. Peter, St. Sixtus and St. Basil. The prayers throughout the liturgy are full of Biblical imagery. The story of salvation is told over and over again, and each liturgy is a short course in theology, using spiritual poetry to give praise, honor and thanksgiving for God's mercy and forgiveness, and His constant love for us no matter what!
In the prayer of elevation before the Lord's Prayer in the Communion Rite at each Qoorbono (the equivalent of mass), the Celebrant prays silently:
You, O Lord, are the pleasing victim,
who was offered for us:
you are the forgiving sacrifice,
who offered yourself to your Father.
You are the Lamb of sacrifice,
and yet also the priest who offered himself for us.
May our prayers be like incense in your sight
as we present them through you and with you
to your Father.
One of the most beautiful prayers offered up by the celebrant occurs at the end of the liturgy. It is prayed silently.
Remain in peace, O holy altar of God.
I hope to return to you in peace.
May the offering I have received from you forgive my sins
and prepare me to stand blameless
before the throne of Christ.
I know not whether I will be able to return to you again to offer sacrifice.
Guard me, O Lord, and protect your holy Church,
that she may be the way of salvation and the light of the world.
Amen.
heeeyyyy. I'm really not that picky when it comes to appearance, regarding dressing for Church. I really don't mind blue jeans. But would it be too much to ask to skip the spaghetti straps and short shorts? I don't care how good your "heart" is, if you show up to Mass half-naked, and its not because you're poverty stricken, then you're disrespecting God. If you're referring to my characterization of the pastor as "tubby" let me tell you that this jerk has deliberately deprived me and about 500 other people of our rights where God is concerned. OUR RIGHTS. I don't mind driving an hour away somewhere else, but not everyone can do that. Those people are stuck where they are to suffer under this arrogant horses' ass. I'm going to call him exactly what he is- TUBBY, and when he starts honoring his vows and doing right by Christ, then I will be NICE and SWEET to him. Okay?
You go girl!
:)
On the off chance that you should stick it out, despite the aggravation, with your current parish you might try exploring the General Instructions to the Roman Missal. The quote below is from the EWTN website.
Personally, I would present the problem as a question to the priest. "I know the GIRM says we in the Latin Rite are supposed to use unleavened bread, has the parish received a dispensation? Just for my own peace of mind, where can I find something in writing that says it is okay?"
Shoot, ask the diocese, ask the Papal Nuncio, ask anyone you can think of. Personally, I want to see it in writing for my own peace of mind. From someone with authority to dispense with the general instructions of the Church. I'm a simple sort of fellow.
Chapter VI Requisites For Celebrating Mass
I. Bread And Wine
281. Following the example of Christ, the Church has always used bread and wine with water to celebrate the Lord's Supper.
282. According to the tradition of the entire Church, the bread must be made from wheat; according to the tradition of the Latin Church, it must be unleavened.
You need to try out Our Lady of Fatima 5217 Futura Ave off of Route 60. 222-3530. Mass is everyday at 0900 with the Rosary after most Mass. Sunday Mass is at 0800 and 1000 with the Rosary at 0930.
You wrote "why? What exactly is the outcome they hope for?"
Okay first off remember the sort of Protestants they want to become - fundamentally, your heretics are just like our heretics. If the word heretic seems a little strong, stop and think about the logical implications of a priest 'forgetting' to pronounce the absolution...while several motives are possible, *all* of them imply that the priest just didn't think it was that big of a deal. In fact the folks they are copying are the folks *we* (and the Lutherans, and the Methodists, and the Presbyterians) are trying to get rid of - pagans who simply see the various parts of the Body of Christ as convenient sources of income while attempting to remake the world into their own image. Of course it isn't really *their* image they are attempting to copy, but since they don't even believe in satan, they don't understand that the god they are actually worshipping is "the god of this world" (to borrow from St. Paul in 2Cor 4:4). That's pretty blunt, but except for the incredibly naive, most of the clergy who are involved in this stuff are well aware that they are NOT preaching and teaching historical Christianity.
You may be too young to remember the whole 'liberation theology' schtick which was big among both Catholic and Protestant leftists back in the 60's and 70's, but all that nonsense is still going strong in some places(check out the Maryknolls for a Catholic example, and Sojourners for a Protestant one) and this is just a logical extension of that. The whole idea behind liberation theology was to use the Church as leverage to move the world toward socialism. Oh they also gave lip service to Jesus, but that was about it. Once this whole concept became obvious to them, the leftists took the next logical step and began subverting seminaries, and eventually getting a few of their folks promoted - thus you (and we) now have not only wacko priests but also wacko bishops; all of whom are operating on the underlying delusion that the Church is simply a great place to try to change things according to their own ideas of how the world should be.
I dunno, does that make things a little clearer?
me-ow
hiss hiss scrach their eyes out. This is a subject worthy of getting our back arched.
Let the fur and feathers fly.
Thank you for the directory link for the Eastern Rite Churches in VA. The Glen Allen Maronite is just outside of Richmond which is just too far. My best bet for an alternate-Rite appears to be Roanoke. Two hours would be quite a commute, but I am at least going to give it a try. I'm curious, what radius did you set for your search?
Your explanation of their ...Qoorbono was very interesting, yet sounds so foreign. I can see where it would take a few visits to become oriented. The prayers you shared are beautiful. Did you do a lot of research about the Maronites, or are you picking up this knowledge as you go?
"You need to try out Our Lady of Fatima..."
Thanks for that suggestion and I'll make a note of the address. However, Richmond is just too distant to make it a regular thing. But if I'm ever down that way, I'll check it out.
Just want to thank you again for your always welcome and lucid analyses of "what's going on". Wish you were one uf us. We could use your clarity and knowledge in our particular battles in the US Cathollic Church right now.
"I dunno, does that make things a little clearer?"
Well, yes I think it does. They want to remake the Church with their own vision, with theselves in power, the goal being world socialism. So, except for the incredibly naive, they are now atheists? And, if they ARE aware they are not teaching and preaching historical Christianity, then what, they are evil? Can it get any worse?!
I wish I couldn't remember the whole liberation theology crap, but I do. I guess all this progressive stuff is the same ole, same old, just different language. God help us all.
"I can give you directions to the Maronite church in Roanoke if you need them. The church is not too far from Interstate 81."
Why, how kind of you. Yes please, I would very much like the directions.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.