"The Passion" by Geza Vermes

Times Online ^ | March 20, 2005 | Peter Stanford

[Invincibly Ignorant]

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[malakhi]

Thanks for the ping. Added to my Amazon shopping cart.

[malakhi]

None of the other Gospels claim that Mary abandoned Jesus.

Depends upon whether or not you think the "Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome" mentioned in Mark 15 is Jesus's mother.

[John Locke]

As a former Catholic priest who has returned to his Jewish roots, he tends to see the events described without party political bias.

Yeah, right. Apostates never have political bias, do they - just ask Emperor Julian.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Horse manure. Pure horse manure. None of the other Gospels claim that Mary abandoned Jesus.

The guy doesn't say the other Gospels "claim" anything. However, I believe it to be a rather large detail to have been left out. Hence usage of the word "abandon."

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Yeah, right. Apostates never have political bias, do they - just ask Emperor Julian.

Let the labeling begin. Perhaps you can comment on the substance of the article?

[AZ_Cowboy]

There is nothing inherently wrong with each gospel writer highlighting different aspects of their time with Christ. Each of them came from a different background, and because of this they focused on different aspects of life. The different backgrounds allows much of the divergence to make sense. Why the author of the article here is surprised that Matthew, a tax collector, would focus on monetary items more, baffles me. I am sure lots of you probably find your job skills entering into your assessment of things more than you planned. That is the magic of the mind.

I remain somewhat annoyed by the characterization of evangelicals as "Christian Fundamentalists". The insinuation there is that they are every bit as bad as Islamic Radicals. The people that are now referred to as the "religious right" and presumably also as "Christian Fundamentalists" have been around in this country practically from its inception. Given that we have yet to adopt a theocratic form of government in the past 228 years, I see no reason to believe that we will anytime soon. The anti-Slavery movement was largely spearheaded by what we would today call the religious right.

Another thing that struck me about the apparently boundless ignorance of this "erudite" author here was his referencing to Christian Anti-Semitism. There are, of course, many people who object to the entire term anti-Semitism, as the Arabs are also Semitic and speak Semitic languages. I am not one of those people, but that is not my point. The "Religious Right"/"Christian Fundamentalists" are among the strongest supporters of Israel by all accounts. Why attack people who actively befriend the Jewish People and are anxious to defend our common Holy Land? Because they believe in Christ, a fellow Jew? Perhaps they have not heard of Messianic Jews.

I have long-standing friendships with many individuals that the author would describe as "Christian Fundamentalists" or "Religious Right". Never once have I heard any of these upstanding individuals ever advocate the establishment of a theocracy , nor the stoning of homosexuals, nor any of that other crap they put out on the biased TV media.

Lastly, we all know that if these same exact people were out campaigning for John Kerry or trying to browbeat people on environmental issues, all of these sophisticates would be drooling over them.

[PzLdr]

I can make one quick comment. The Romans weren't "colonizers".They were conquerors and rulers. The only Romans in Judea were the legions and other military types, the governor and his staff, and some merchants and traders.

[malakhi]

What's your point? That Mary did not abandon Jesus either.

My point is that, if you believe "Mary the mother of James, etc." is also the mother of Jesus, then Mark supports you in reporting her presence at the crucifixion. If you think, on the other hand, that Jesus was an only child, and that James et. al. were his cousins, then Mark doesn't state that Jesus's mother was present.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Why attack people who actively befriend the Jewish People and are anxious to defend our common Holy Land? Because they believe in Christ, a fellow Jew? Perhaps they have not heard of Messianic Jews.

Why use the word "attack"? I see some disagreement in the article but where's the "attack"? By all means I encourage Jew/Christian friendship. However defending eretz Yisrael is a small part of commonality. Perhaps Christians should reconsider blatent anti-jewishness in New Testament writings.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Because they believe in Christ, a fellow Jew? Perhaps they have not heard of Messianic Jews.

There is no dispute that Jesus was a fellow Jew. However, Jews don't believe the person Jesus is the same character that later became the "Christ". You're talking to a former Messianic Jew.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Reread the article: "the others have Jesus abandoned by her". This is English. Grow up.

His interpretation of the 3 Gospels that are silent concerning Mary's presence cause him to use the word "abandoned". The Gospels themselves don't claim "abandonment". That was my point. Why do you have to tell me to grow up? Thought we were just having a conversation?

[malakhi]

Mark never states that Jesus's mother was absent, period

Given that Mark sees fit to mention the presence of both Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James, the exclusion of mention of Jesus's own mother would seem to be a rather significant oversight. Matthew adds the mother of the sons of Zebedee to the list, but likewise fails to mention Jesus's mother being there.

[1 spark]

I could be mistaken...but it looks like the reviewer of book, Peter Stanford, is the one who chose the word "abandoned"...not the author, Geza Vermes. I've read Vermes before ("The Changing Faces of Jesus")...and from what I recall, he didn't write like he has an axe to grind....just was pretty straighforward in interpreting scripture in its proper timeframe.

[murphE]

Haven't you noticed an increase of attacks on the Blessed Mother lately?