Posted on 05/28/2005 1:04:07 PM PDT by jer33 3
The faction was caused by the identifying with the one who baptized them.
*** If he had just begun to speak, he had not finished saying everything that is recorded in Acts 10.***
Look more closely...
"While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word."
"...all who heard the word."
They HAD heard "the word" - the technical term for the gospel.
The had heard, they had believed and they received the Spirit. They were saved.
For reference to what you are saying, please include a verse talking about Holy Spirit baptism that uses the word "baptizo". Thanks.Latin Vulgate
John 1:33 et ego nesciebam eum sed qui misit me baptizare in aqua ille mihi dixit super quem videris Spiritum descendentem et manentem super eum hic est qui baptizat in Spiritu Sancto
King James Version
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
He was pointing out that some were correctly saying they were of Christ, or in Christ. The problem was the ones that were saying they were of Paul, or of Apollos, or of Cephas.
Is faith a gift from God?
I know Peter had just started to speak. I also know that Peter said that the Holy Spirit coming upon Cornelius was like what happened to him and the other Apostles at Pentecost. Was that "baptism" of the Holy Spirit for salvation? No. Neither was this.
Do you believe that one can be baptized in the Holy Spirit ... and not be saved ?
As I have stated before, I can not possibly disagree that the salvation comes through the gospel. But we must look at all that Paul has written (as I believe all of his epistles to be inspired). This is the same Paul - I'm certain that it's the same person this time :) - who stated:
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
I want to put on Christ and Paul says that is done via baptism. Kind of hard to imagine that Paul could be explaining that some are christians through their faith, but that they don't need to put on Christ. Which is the conclusion from this statement if we presume that baptism isn't necessary.
We put on Christ or are placed into Chirst through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
***The problem was the ones that were saying they were of Paul, or of Apollos, or of Cephas.***
But you stated, "The faction was caused by the identifying with the one who baptized them."
And though that is a possible interpretaion, it can not be proven from the text - because the text does not state in which manner they were identifying with the varous names.
They may have been identifying as disciples - as in "I am a disciple of Apollos" or "I am a follower of Cephas" etc.
You infer baptismal identification from the text.
This interpretation is made even more unlikely because of Paul's additional reference to "crucifixion".
Verse please. Thanks.
That makes no sense. Paul was saying that the only one they should identify with was Christ, because they were baptized in the name of Christ, and because Christ was crucified for them.
***As I have stated before, I can not possibly disagree that the salvation comes through the gospel. ***
We agree.
***I want to put on Christ and Paul says that is done via baptism***
What do you you make of this verse?
Romans 13
13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no plans to satisfy the fleshly desires.
He isn't speaking to unconverted people here.
You may find this of interest...
Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament
Were baptized into Christ (eiß Criston ebaptisqhte). First aorist passive indicative of baptizw. Better, "were baptized unto Christ" in reference to Christ. Did put on Christ (Criston enedusasqe). First aorist middle indicative of enduw (-nw). As a badge or uniform of service like that of the soldier. This verb is common in the sense of putting on garments (literally and metaphorically as here). See further in Paul (Romans 13:14; Colossians 3:9; Ephesians 4:22-24; Ephesians 6:11,14). In 1 Thessalonians 5:8 Paul speaks of "putting on the breastplate of righteousness." He does not here mean that one enters into Christ and so is saved by means of baptism after the teaching of the mystery religions, but just the opposite. We are justified by faith in Christ, not by circumcision or by baptism. But baptism was the public profession and pledge, the soldier's sacramentum, oath of fealty to Christ, taking one's stand with Christ, the symbolic picture of the change wrought by faith already (Romans 6:4-6).
***Verse please. Thanks.***
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Interesting, but he is making the assumption that the word as translated is not saying what it should and that he somehow has a better understanding. He can only do this if he has an already held belief that he is trying to defend, rather than looking to the Bible for what to believe. I did this same thing for many years, then finally decided to let the Bible interpret the Bible and not commentaries or creeds.
When we dispute over the differing meanings and tenses of the original greek (valid in the right contexts), we must not overlook the basic truths supplied by other verses. In Mark 16:16, Jesus equates belief AND baptism with salvation. In Acts 2:38, we are told what baptism does. In 1 Pet 3:21, we are told what baptism is.
I want salvation, remission from my sin, and to answer God with a good conscience. I want to put on Christ, be buried with him and rise anew, be brought in contact with the blood of Christ and his resurrection, etc. The Bible says these things are done via baptism. Therefore, I'm going to conclude that baptism is necessary and -as Naaman did - simply obey.
Excellent verse. I look forward to discussing it with you further. Unfortunately I am leaving on vacation tomorrow and will be gone for a few weeks (unfortunate for our discussion that is - very fortunate for me). If this topic hasn't been discussed into the ground by then, I would very much like to continue. In Him
*** Unfortunately I am leaving on vacation tomorrow and will be gone for a few weeks ***
A likely excuse!
(Just kidding) Have a great time!
***. In Mark 16:16, Jesus equates belief AND baptism with salvation. In Acts 2:38, we are told what baptism does. In 1 Pet 3:21, we are told what baptism is.***
Yes, but you've chosen the verse you like.
The whole counsel of Scripture must be looked at.
When taken out of context, James can be seem to say that we are justified by works. Likewise, when taken out of context there are verses inthe NT that indicate that Jesus is not equal to God the Father.
***I want salvation***
Salvation comes by faith - simple faith.
Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
That salvation will inevitably result in right action - of which baptism is a primary example. Baptism, and the associate repentence which it symbolizes is called a righteous act by Jesus himself...
Matthew 3:14-16
But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.
It is not by "righteousness" or righteous deeds that we are saves...
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
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