Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Do you intend to answer my question?
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, OK.
You read nothing but Scripture?
Nope. I pretty much intend to say to you whatever strikes my fancy.
***Do you believe we should have completely open borders? No restrictions? Just come on in?***
Nope. Each country oughta reserve the right to screen potential visitors, much less settlers and to set the numbers that either wander in or out, or simply stay for the duration.
***”Immigrants are immigrants”. Sure, but not all the same.***
Agreed. Why would any country want other countries’ rabble rousers and professional leeches and career criminals?
I mean, look what it did for Australia...
***My folks came from Newfoundland in the early 1900’s and the ones still with us still drop their “H”’s and add them where not appropriate. “Did you ear about poor old Enry? E’s gone to the other side e as. Hit was an accident you know. E was fishig for Addock and fell into the hocean.”***
Life on the Rock. They were sure courteous in 2001 when a bunch of airplanes dropped in on them for a lengthy visit.
***Umor this hold guy. Convert the above sentence.***
Umm. I try to use short words for those that need it but it don’t work at times.
***Sometimes, folks are wise to
SIGNAL ME
in red neon lights.***
Sometimes folks are wise to utilize the English language in order to make their points in a cogent fashion.
I suppose I could respond
in tongues
?in fingers?
but then I’d have to provide a translation.
I will join you in those prayers, Mary. I know how tough that situation can be too. With God all things are possible. God bless you.
Yes, very sadly. The only way to raise man up above his proper station is to first lower God.
I agree with what you say here...
***I suppose I could respond
in tongues***
Beef tongues?
The only way to raise man up above his proper station is to first lower God.
= = =
Well put.
And what a slick crafty way to do it with a mother goddess caricature.
***The only way to raise man up above his proper station is to first lower God.
= = =
Well put.
And what a slick crafty way to do it with a mother goddess caricature.***
An even craftier way to do it is to label the holy ‘profane’ and the profane ‘holy’. And vehemently defend those propositions.
No mother goddess in Catholicism; no caricatures either. If you come across a Catholic site that deals in caricatures of mother goddesses, I’d be obliged to you if you’d let me know what they were.
Thank you, dear one. I appreciate you. M
***I agree with what you say here...***
Well, you are the only one to reply to my statement:
You were the one who introduced the concept of Pastor Wright to us. You provided information to us.
Based upon that information, I would not be inclined to ask him for a shoe shine. If you have further information, I would be grateful to entertain it.
......................
FRiend Quix has not enlightened us with any further information. That can only mean one of two things. Either he is unable to provide such information in a short time, or he is unable to provide such information at all.
What odds do you think would attach to the second proposition?
We don’t have a Pope. We have only Christ...
She’ll never be called Queen by me or by any of the other born again protestants here. Think what you will of Mary, but she would be shocked at the way she’s venerated by many (not all) Catholics. She was a humble and obedient young woman who bore the Saviour. She was not sinless, she had other children, and she was HIS mother, not mine or anyone else’s. To GOD be all the glory.
***We don’t have a Pope. We have only Christ...***
This is a nice fantasy for most Protestants, but they have their leaders and setters of doctrine and interpreters of the Bible and their moral directors.
Some look to others; some look to themselves. For many, a glimpse of their own Pope is in their own mirror.
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