Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Glad SOMEONE
is
—awake
—with eyes open
—brain turned on
—logic circuits all firing
—Alice-in-Wonderland-School-of-Theology-Fantasizer turned off
. . .
Very lovely.
Fine insight.
Guess I didn’t read them that way.
I observed pointed questions being asked . . .
and later . . . avoided or flipped-out over or some such . . .
of course . . . many of us Prottys are quite used to some RC’s reading all manner of fantasies into even Scripture . . . so what chance does a hapless FREEPER have to be read accurately! LOL.
However, the mental gymnastics some on the RC side go through can be quite entertaining . . . in a sad sort of way.
Have never profezzed to bee a gud spellur.
As you wish.
Seeing some RC’s resurrect anything besides archaic fantasies could be entertaining.
Though integrity would more or less require the context of the whole of my pontifications when analyzing any micro-bite of them. LOL.
Here on FR I am told it's a proper noun and the indications are that it refers to non-Catholics who are sort of Calvinist.
I'm not saying one is right and one isn't. I AM saying it's confusing.
Estrogen?
I thought Parochial schools taught basic biology.
If RC’s have so much difficulty telling the difference between XY and XX . . . that could go a long ways toward explaining the plethera of RC’s who seem to have a genetic difficulty in understanding the difference between
SAME
vs
DIFFERENT.
. . .
as well as the seeming RC obsession with exercising DOUBLE STANDARDS to the max!
That one is cause for reflection..
For freedom he has set you free. Is freedom about doing stuff or about not doing stuff. We are not freed because we do stuff we are freed so we can do stuff.
I don’t even know if I’ve known such a one in the past. I sure can’t think of a single Protty that fits that description amongst over a thousand in my social network currently.
Fascinating RC fantasy. Did this one come WITH or WITHOUT an accompanying Mary apparition?
LOL...I thought it was funny.
Quite a reflection.
Consider this as well.
Mary knew at least from the Moment of presentation in the Temple of her 8 day old baby that her heart would be pierced by sorrow.
Either you accept all of the Church’s pronouncements or you accept none. You cannot pick and choose.
= = =
Except that it seems like most RC’s do exactly that . . . picking and choosing only the decisions from only the centuries that affirm the CURRENT STATUS QUO.
LOL. What a fantasy!
I didn’t realize the edifice contained such a bizaare straw dog factory. Must be in the Philippines . . . or maybe Mexico.
That’s your big problem. [some RC’s] can’t distinguish Scripture from Mariology.
= = =
Boy, that sure reads like a set of fingers full of truth.
Well the implicit ad hominem (don't believe their arguments because they do) can work either way. If you all started listening to what we say instead of making it up, you might have to make some initially uncomfortable changes too. So we shouldn't listen to you for the same reason you shouldn't listen to us.
Well said.
Though I probably wouldn’t say “nice going” even in satire! LOL.
Funny little words like “This is My Body, this is my Blood” and do this in remembrance of me.
Remember also...They have never had the blessing of the words spoken by Jesus on the road to Emaus...They cannot benefit from typology of the OT because they weren't taught.
Those words are not recorded in the truncated and revised version of KJ that they read...
They have no oral teachings from Apostle to new disciple that the early church fathers wrote about because none of it was codified.
My God have mercy on all of his children but especially those in most need.
Many that cry Lord,Lord will not be recognized.
Many that claim to be Christians will be shouting crucify him again because he doesn’t meet the demands of their visage.
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