Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Sadly, the RCC carries its teachings into an idolatrous worship/veneration/glorification/prayers to a woman who was exactly as fallen as you or me, and who was saved exactly the same way you and I are saved -- by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
No bodily assumption into heaven of Mary. No sinless conception of Mary. No supernatural intact virginity of Mary after Christ's birth. No worship/veneration/glorification/prayers to anyone other than the Triune God alone.
Truth is always the motive.
LOL
What is this creepy protestant obsession with Mary's hymen?
If you feel compelled to add to Christ, that's your prerogative.
Again I encourage you to return to the Bible and read for yourself there is only one name under heaven by which men are saved, Jesus Christ.
Some do, but those Bible-believing Christians who are Catholics know all that His Church reveals to us.
How does one "return to" what one has never left?
That is your sad interpretation of Mary. NO WHERE, in Catholic teaching does it say we are saved through Mary. To insinuate otherwise is slander. The fact that we don't think of her like some meaningless Greek statue, doesn't mean that we place her above God. Obviously our love of God is a little too passionate for your tastes, that doesn't give you the right to spread calumnious lies against us.
It's creepy, alright, but it's not coming from the Protestants, but from Rome. No one would have thought two seconds about it until Rome concocted the ridiculous, blasphemous error that somehow Mary's hymen was still intact after the birth of Christ.
What a God-awful pretense. What a denial of Christ's humanity. What an idolatrous, bogus pretension to foist off on the mother of Christ.
To base such anti-Scriptural nuttiness on a few words by Aquinas and the ravings of Pope Paul IV's "Cum quorundam" at the Council of Trent is ludicrous.
It's the RCC who is preoccupied with Mary's supposed intact virginity after the birth of Christ. I guess the RCC would have to make these idiotic claims for it to believe all the rest of the blasphemy that followed.
No king but Christ. No redeemer but Christ. No sacrifice by Christ.
Ooooh, anti-Catholic venom.
Matthew 7:16
Never stopped. Can't return to what was never left.
Wow!
Really?
What’s an “RCC catechism?”
The false claims made over and over about the Catechism of the Catholic Church by Catholic-hating bigots?
YES, they are.
"FATHER, . . . this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."1 "God our Savior desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."2 "There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved"3 - than the name of JESUS.
Not only a stirring rebuke of Cauvin's dark gospel of predestination, but also the direct statement: "There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved"3 - than the name of JESUS.
Saint Sigmund, pray for us!
St. Sigmund of Vienna?
A asks B for a glass of hot water.
B gives A a glass of cold water.
A asks B again for a glass of hot water.
B says, "You asked for water. I gave you water. You are making what must be an intentional error."
A and the onlookers fall on the floor laughing.
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