What? The RC magicsterical????
Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.
It was some time ago. I wish that FR had an in-post search function.
I’ll see what Google can come up with.
LOL is right.
Apparently that's exactly what Rome teaches -- some men are called by the Mother. It's truly amazing to surf the net and read some of these Catholic sites...
"So too, Mary calls to us down through the ages to imitate her, not with words so much, but with the example of her life..."
Where does the Scripture say we are to imitate Mary???
Christians are called by God to imitate Christ.
Or from this site...
Our very consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary calls upon us to make reparation for the offenses that we and others have committed against her. The Church, in inviting us to consecrate ourselves to her Immaculate Heart, implicitly calls upon us for this reparation. But more explicitly, and even before Fatima, Saint Pius X offered a plenary indulgence to all who on the first Saturday of the month would observe special devotions in honor of the Immaculate Virgin in a spirit of reparation for the blasphemies uttered against her. Reparation to the Immaculate Heart
???
We are "consecrated to Mary?!?"
We "make reparations to HER?!?"
For "offenses against HER?!?"
From the next paragraph...
"There is, however, an even more basic reason why each one of us owes reparation to the Immaculate Heart of Mary: every sin of ours caused grief and suffering to her in union with her divine Son. For sin was the cause of that terrible day on Calvary when she, as the New Eve, shared in the torment of the great sacrifice, and, amidst indescribable pain, brought forth spiritually all the members of the Mystical Body of her divine Son. God willed that Mary should be intimately associated with His Son in bearing the burden of all sin; surely then, her Immaculate Heart, in union with His divine Heart, should receive reparation from us who have caused them such pain. If anyone causes hurt to even a very ordinary human being, he does not overlook the need to make amends. How much more do we owe to the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
There it is. Mary "bears the burden of all sin."
Blasphemy and lies.
First "another Christ." And now, "another Savior."
I’ll try to get back to that this evening.
I’ve been having so much fun, I’m quite late getting around to my watering and off to pottery.
Anyone
Purporting to
mind-read
heart-read“idolatry” into a single word, phrase, sentence, paragraph of any of my prayers, or those of my brethren
strikes me as bearing false witness.
Thankfully, My Lord Jesus The Christ knows the score in our heart and our mind.
There. Fixed it.
Catholics are not burdened by the false teaching known as sola scriptura.
Nothing surprises me anymore. by the way, quix is the barbarian, I am the heathen, you can be either the apostate or the heretic.
What? The RC magicsterical????
***So, it seems inescapable that in the view of the poster I’m responding to, I personally am
an apostate, heretic and heathen. ***
Are you taking names on yourself? Are you reading minds?
***I was beginning to feel unloved by my dear RC bretheren and sistern. ***
Ah, the hidden secret of this thread. Unlike it’s title, this thread is not about Mary; it’s about Quix’s feelings.
What? Your post?
It simply does not say what you claim it says. It's amazing that one can cut and paste it without taking the time to understand it.
Show me where I wrote the word "impossible" in that post.
Nope. Doesn't say that.
What an excellent find in the search for evidence that Mary is the object of idolatrous worship! This makes DeMontfort look like a NOOB!
Why would I do that? I never claimed YOU used the word impossible in that post.
to be responsible for RC understanding and comprehension hereon?
Is English your second language?
LOL.
Sooooooooooo, is it that the
white hanky’s deliver messages through the
White Hanky Time Travel Sevice
or how, exactly, is that managed?
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