Posted on 09/20/2009 2:46:15 PM PDT by Colofornian
SNIP
Sharing testimonies is an important part of the Latter-day Saint experience. We bear testimonies in many settings — in the home with family and among friends and associates or in missionary experiences. In Church, one Sunday is set aside every month for the bearing of testimonies during sacrament meetings.
SNIP
In his address at the October 2004 general conference, Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve...said that his experience throughout the Church leads him to worry that too many members' testimonies linger on "I am thankful," and "I love," and too few are able to say with humble but sincere clarity, "I know." As a result, he noted, meetings sometimes lack the testimony-rich, spiritual underpinnings that stir the soul and have meaningful, positive impact on the lives of all those who hear them.
He...counseled, "We need to replace stories, travelogues and lectures with pure testimonies. Those who are entrusted to speak and teach in our meetings need to do so with doctrinal power that will be both heard and felt, lifting the spirits and edifying our people."
SNIP
As we listen to general conference this October, we will hear many bear pure testimony. Numerous times over the years, we have heard President Thomas S. Monson, first as an apostle and now as president of the Church, bear such testimony. May we, as Primary children sing, be inclined to "follow the prophet" in our endeavor to nurture, strengthen and share our testimonies that we have a Heavenly Father who loves us, that Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith was the prophet who was raised up to restore the fullness of the everlasting gospel...
(Excerpt) Read more at ldschurchnews.com ...
Is your "testimony" in 311 that "God [is] my savior" not really any different than some soul in the spirit world awaiting some Mormon missionary to show up to proclaim the gospel to him, and if he accepts, he'll say in like manner, "this Mormon missionary is my savior"???
Me: Well, then have a fit with Romans 6:23 (not me): For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
DU: Nope, no fit, the resurrection is a free gift, Atonement is something you have to keep the commandments for, it's all clear to me, because it's all been explained by the church and confirmed by the Holy Ghost.
Do you normally twist verses like this (Romans 6:23) just to stick to pure Mormon doctrine? Let's hit the rewind button on that portion of our conversation to get you to stick to Scripture instead of openly twisting it. Here, I'll highlight it:
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom. 6:23)
Questions:
Does Rom. 6:23 talk about the "atonement" (No? Then why did you mention it in response?)
Does Rom. 6:23 talk about the "resurrection" (No? Then why did you mention it in response?)
Did you mention these 'cause it was your only way to acknowledge that, yes, Lds think at least one salvation thing from God is a gift?
Were you trying to avoid the complete image of some earth-to-heaven ladder climber?
So let's get back to the "eternal life" mentioned in Romans 6:23. Is that a gift or not? Yes or no?
[And if you still have trouble deciphering what Mormon doctrinaires do with the phrase "eternal life" and how it's defined, here, allow me to cite an official Lds publication, True to the Faith: "Eternal life, or exaltation, is to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, where we will live in God's presence & continue as families..." (True to the Faith, 2004 p. 52)]
Simply put, you already knew the Mormon doctrinal formula of "eternal life" = exaltation = celestial kingdom = becoming of godhood, didn't you?
Likewise, you already knew that in the Mormon church's eyes, resurrection DOES NOT = eternal life, didn't you? Here's the proof:
"But resurrection alone does not qualify us for eternal life in the presence of God. Our sins make us unclean and unfit to dwell in God's presence, and we need His grace to purify and perfect us 'after all we can do'(2 Nephi 25:23)." (True to the Faith, p. 77)
DU, knowing your own sins that "make [you] unclean and unfit to dwell in God's presence" -- have you performed up to the standard of 2 Nephi 25:23? Have you done EVERYTHING you can do relationally, spiritually, emotionally, physically? Everything? Everything?
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.From this we know that the disciples knew that men existed before they were born, and the could sin as Satan did.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:All I am doing is repeating scriptural beliefs, beliefs that the early church had On my page in the section on Hippolytus, In the section from Book X of a refutation of all heresies which was the tenth book in the series written by Hippolytus, he makes it clear that this was the belief of the early Christan church. A restoration needs to restore things to the way they were, not follow upstart, man-made doctrines like the nicene creed.
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
For the Deity, (by condescension,) does not diminish anything of the divinity of His divine perfection; having made you even God unto His glory!"CF: "The intelligence of spirits had no beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic...Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle...The first principles of man are self-existent with God." [Joseph Smith, Teachings of Presidents of the Church, p. 210]
God loves me so much that he allowed me to come down to earth and become more like him, then knowing I was weak, allowed his only begotten son to come and give his life for me. No man deserves the love that the Godhead has shown us, they united in their love for me, have planned to give me every opportunity to return to them and inherit their kingdom if I will just accept and obey their commandments. I would that I was a better Christian than the poor example I am now... This love has been extended to every man, which I believe does not lessen it's power one bit.I do not think anyone will come away with the haughty light that your "edits" would portray me in. What I wrote was heartfelt and I will not take back a word of it no matter how what I said is twisted.
Well, you had fun posting your "get out of hell free" monopoly cards on several posts.
What I'd like to know is if you send the same e-message to leaders in Salt Lake City of a certain religious denomination about beliefs that seem to fall under your "get out of hell free card" posts -- and disagree with your above statement:
"Hell, as thus defined, will have an end, when all the captive spirits have paid the price of their sins and enter into a degree of glory after the resurrection. Statements about an everlasting hell (Hel. 6:28; Moro 8:13) must be interpreted in their proper context in the light of D&C 19:4-12, which defines eternal & endless punishment." (Lds published KJV with Bible Dictionary p 700, 1979 version)
So does this mean that just because Mormon hell-bound spirit prison inmates can negate Jesus' atonement by working off their own sins & their own punishment according to Mormon doctrine that your "get out of hell card free" doesn't apply 'cause they don't get out free? (They have to work their way out?)
But doesn't just essentially doing away with hell ("Hell...will have an end...") wind up booting all the inmates out?
And, please tell us, how the following Mormon doctrine supposedly strikes the fear of hell into the heart of every earthly man:
"Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will be redeemed from the effects of the Fall. We will be resurrected...Through the Savior's gift of mercy and redeeming grace, we will all receive the gift of immortality and live forever in glorified, resurrected bodies." (Official Lds church publication True to the Faith, pp. 58,18 2004)
[To explain this citation to the lurker and others, ya need to understand this is applicable to everybody -- non-Mormons, non-believers, everybody...the Lds church is giving a promise that you'll live forever in glorified, resurrected bodies -- totally carte blanche -- doesn't matter how you lived your life in faith or no faith].
Boy, DU, the above sure sounds like an upgrade from spirit prison, eh?
Or, DU, how about these "get-out-of-hell-free-sounding current teachings?
"...hell...is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel and have the opportunity to repent and accept ordinances for them that are performed." (True to the Faith, 2004, p. 81)
Boy is that getting out of hell free or what?
Or how about Doctrine & Covenants 19:16-18, which says that hell/outer darkness is for the few? Yet they are still "saved": "After suffering in full for their sins they will be allowed to inherit the lowest degree of glory which is the telestial kingdom. The hell in the spirit world will not continue forever." (Official Lds publication, Gospel Principles, p. 280)
Boy, DU, that word "inherit" sure resembles that "free" word & image you were loosely posting, eh?
And we're told hell's going to be cancelled like some bad Fall TV program? (Now, that would have been news to Helaman -- Book of Mormon, 6:28, and Moroni -- 8:13 eh, DU?)
In fact, if hell for mankind is cancelled, why does Mosiah 2:38-39 in the Book of Mormon say it's never-ending torment? An unquenchable fire?
You mean hell's unquenchable fire will be quenched? Its never-ending torment will go on permanent vacation? (Is Mosiah turning over in his grave? Or was he a phantasm and never existed to begin with?)
And what about Alma? 42:16 which says that eternal punishment is as eternal as the life of a soul. What? Are souls like plastic cups that you just toss out when hell becomes a worn-out concept? Really?
How consistent are you? Are you a Book of Mormon adherent or not? If your teachers are teaching you something that's not even taught from the "fulness of the everlasting gospel" Book of Mormon, what does that tell you about how they are NOT led of God?
In the interest of not overextending comments on this subject, allow me to quote several Lds official/church-owned publications on a few related descriptions of polygamy:
"...studies suggest a maximum of from 20% to 25% of LDS adults were members of polygamy households. At its height, plural marriage probably involved only a third of the women reaching marriageable age--though among Church leadership plural marriage was the norm for a time..." (Church History: Selections from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, edited by Daniel H. Ludlow, Deseret Book Co., 1992, p. 423)
According to Ludlow, at one point Smith told Brigham Young that he was going to press ahead with polygamy for "it is the work of God, and He has revealed this principle, and it is NOT MY BUSINESS TO CONTROL OR DICTATE IT" (Brigham Young Discourse, 10/8/1866, Church Archives, Ludlow, pp. 419-420)
Of course, Smith then proceeded to "dictate it" to others, after all
(a)D&C 132;
(b) Ludlow says Joseph and Hyrum Smith "both later taught the principle to others" (p. 420)
and (c) certainly it was dictated to wife Emma Smith!
Ludlow says: "Emma Smith vacillated, one day railing in opposition against it and the next giving her consent for Joseph to be sealed to another wife (see comments by Orson Pratt, JD, 13:194). Teaching new marriage and family arrangements where the principles could not be openly discussed comopunded the problems." (Ludlow, p. 420)
Does this sound like something God would do? Tell Joseph, "Hey, this is my 'work' -- operate under the cover of darkness -- even in your own household???"
Now Ludlow's take was a bit more open than the Lds church's "Our Heritage" 1996 publication, yet still this publication conceded that "Many of America's religious and political leaders became very angry when they learned that Latter-day Saints living in Utah were encouraging a marriage system that they considered immoral and unchristian. A great political crusade was launched against the Church and its members." (p. 97)
Still, note how the current Lds leaders described 19th-century polygamy in the next sentence: The United States Congress passed legislation that curbed the freedom of the Latter-day Saints and hurt the Church economically." (So polygamy was a primarily a "freedom" thing, eh?)
For a person to have their character attacked, they first must have character. [Godzilla]
Yup. Smith, in what was later published in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, ironically asked at one point (1838 -- when he was well into secret, hush-hush polygamy):
"Was it for adultery that we were assailed?" (p. 126)
{In a word, yes!]
The Lds church in 2007 publications is still ensuring that 1994 Ensign quotes like this one from Lds President Howard W. Hunter gets full play -- first inserting words from a praise hymn to Joseph Smith in the Mormon hymnal directly prior to Hunter's words so that a full hymnal context could not be lost upon the reader:
Praise to the man who communied with Jehovah
Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer
Blessed to open the last dispensation
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere
President Howard W. Hunter: We praise [Joseph Smith] for his capacity to commune not only with Jehovah but also with other personages of heaven. So many visited, gave keys, and tutored that 'choice seer... raised up in the later days...We praise Joseph Smith, too, for his diligence and capacity to translate and receive hundreds of pages of revealed scripture. (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, p. 550)
The brackets above are the Lds church insertion, not mine...the elipses are the Lds church's editing, not mine (lest DU accuse me again of hacking something "out of context").
And for further context, the Lds church titled chapter 47 of that book as "'Praise to the Man': Latter-day Prophets Bear Witness of the Prophet Joseph Smith". The chapter then sickenly goes on where 20 Lds "prophets" and leaders go on and on about a man who didn't glorify Jesus Christ and instead absorbed the glory from these men. (Over two-thirds of their "testimonial" praises of Smith neglected to even mention Jesus or the Son of God).
A prophet who usurps the attention of Jesus is a competitor. And the Son of God entertains no rivals.
I realized that I had allowed you to make me angry, I was angry because I had begun to expect honesty from you and you disappointed me, I Gave you too much credit. So, I took a couple of days to respond. I still think that what you said is unconscionable, I think that this poster says a lot about the information you posted [DU]
Note, Godzilla, that DU's accusation of "I had begun to expect honesty from you and you disappointed me... is essentially a comment from the chip off the old false prophet:
Smith simply couldn't understand why "honest men" -- upon seeing the "greatness" of his "revelations" -- didn't reaffirm him as "God's right-hand man" (another claim he made). After going on and on like he was some reviewer of a great literary piece (D&C 76), which he himself wrote, he claimed it was "so much beyond the narrow-mindedness of men, that every honest man is constrained to exclaim: 'It came from God' (Lds "prophet" Wilford Woodruff, Deseret News, 10/18/1881).
"Why," Smith concludes, "if you just don't see the radiance in my seer abilities and prose..." then it's almost as if he presumed men's dishonesty when they heartily disagreed with him in their evaluation of his content.
Tell me, Did you pray about the Bible before accepting it as true? And what about the parts you may not be accepting as true? Did you pray about that, too?
And if you have prayed about the Bible, which version? The KJV? The JST? (If not, why not?)
And if you've prayed about the KJV, why?
Didn't Joseph Smith say: "I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors..." (History of the Church, 6:57-58)
So, if Smith is right, then did you only pray about the "Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers?" (Well, I guess that'd be a bit hard since Smith says we don't have it)
But then again we don't have the "Book of Mormon as it read when it came from the pen of the original dictation team," do we? Martin Harris took 116 pages home & his wife tucked them away somewhere.
So which version of the Book of Mormon are you asking us to pray about?
The pre-Martin Harris episode version?
Or perhaps the 1830 published version?
Or the several-thousand-changes-later 1981 version?
OK, here's the Joe Smith "canonized" version:
"Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence...was not created or made, neither indeed can be...For man is spirit." (D&C 93:29, 33)
"God...allowed me to come down to earth" [DU]
So, let's cut to the chase of my response without you further re-hashing your testimony as originally presented...
Why? Well, you've now presented it twice in full context (always your concern). The reason I'm focusing on one phrase of it is exactly the same reason why you don't answer every jot & tittle comment made your way. You're selective. In the interest of time & energy & interest, you choose. You "edit" which phrase or word you're going to respond to. And you post it. IOW, even when you quote a poster in full graph, you still only address a small segment of what they say. (We all do it)
Well, that's what I just did: I focused on that phrase 'cause you opened up an interesting angle of "your testimony" that most Mormons don't bring up...what I'd like to know is: Is your testimony distinct from the following oft-unspoken-but-believed Mormon belief system testimony?
Mormons believe in eternal progression -- so let's see what that looks like hitting the rewind button -- and (this is where you come in, DU): Does the "essentials" of what follows (not my fancy expression of them, but the core kernel inside), represent your "life bio," too?
(a) "Man was also in the beginning with God" (D&C 93:29)
(b) Man's "intelligence spirit" was uncreated/unmade (D&C 93:29,33)
(c) Somehow these eternal intelligent spirits THEN get born...as spirits....to a "Mom-god"...even though they've always existed...go figure
(d) THEN, these eternal-intelligent-spirits-born-to-a-Mom-god-as-spirits await an earthly body...they await marital & premarital & plural union marital sex to result in bodies that they can -- to use your words -- "to come down to earth" for habitation purposes
(e) THEN, having forgotten everything they've ever learned before, pretty much disregarding that "intelligence" from eternity, these eternal now twice-born intelligence-spirits (twice born after never originating as intelligence-spirits, that is) start again from ground zero...on planet Earth
(f) YET, Lds leaders also say these ground-zero kids are "gods in embryos"...and that confuses me, too...I mean, they were already apparently embryos in their mom's womb on earth PLUS in their Mom-God's physical womb in heaven (or whereever) and have now twice matured from that "embryo" stage -- yet they're embryos a third time?
(g) And then you get to grow up, with your life being an active audition for full godhood...
(h) Then you die...hopefully graduating to a fully mature god that will be fully worshiped and prayed to by perhaps millions & billions of your "increase" [Smith's word as this whole thing is all about having your personal planetary/star-like "kingdom"; Smith said if you don't marry as part of an everlasting covenant, then that would be "the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase." (see D&C 131:1-4) ... meaning no new spirit babies coming from your wife/wives on that new planet/star]
(i) And what then?
Well, according to Joseph Smith, who was talking about the righteous who died: "...[they] shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before." (History of the Church: 6:306)
There ya go: Hit the "god station" of life big time, glory & exaltation & power of the divine magnitude to you & all other gods.
So, is that also your goal? Is that your destiny, DU? If you were to look back from your future life-as-a-god, would all this be your "life bio testimony?"
Which parts are "yes" and which are "maybe" and which are "no" -- and why/why not?
One other note: You know, those "everlasting burning" dwelling comments as a "good thing" by Smith kind of bother me. For example, Smith also said: "...Some shall rise to the everlasting burnings of God, for God dwells in everlasting burnings..." (History of the Church, 1:455)
(I almost get the feeling that Smith was enticed by unnamed personages from beyond who told him, "Hey, come live with us in everlasting burnings." And he apparently took up their offer)
And how did Smith further describe this locale?
"Those who have done wrong always have that wrong gnawing them. Immortality dwells in everlasting burnings." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 367)
Some "gospel" that is, DU. Always -- everlastingly -- having that wrong gnawing at them -- never removed by the substitutionary blood of Christ. How is that kind of "immortal life" in "everlasting burnings" some kind of grand experience? (I just don't get it; perhaps you can unravel this Mormon maze for me?)
Then you will be glad to have this chance to tweak my knowledge once more:
What did JS LEARN that was UNTRUE anbout PRESBYTERIANism?
Ok then; post the Book, Chapter and Verses here on FR.
Let the lurkers see if they really are SCRIPTURE.
Let's see them found in your Holy Writ.
Some folks are poor teachers.
What was that about the MORMON hell that I don't know?
Hummm...
Where has THIS ever happened???
Of course!
That is yet ANOTHER way we MORMONs know that JS (pbuh) was called of GOD!
It shows his human imperfection - that he was ABLE to be used of GOD.
--MormonDuqe(Sorta like Balaam's talking ass.)
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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS SECTION 132
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; 26–27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines— 2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter. 3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same. 4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye dammed; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory. 5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world. 6 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fullness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fullness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.
7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead. 8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion. 9 Will I accept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name? 10 Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not appointed? 11 And will I appoint unto you, saith the Lord, except it be by law, even as I and my Father ordained unto you, before the world was? 12 I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandment—that no man shall come unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord. 13 And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by thrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall not remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God. 14 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed. 15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world. 16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory. 17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God. 19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fullness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them. 21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory. 22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me. 23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also. 24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law. 25 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law. 26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God. 27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be dammed, saith the Lord. 28 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the law of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was. 29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne. 30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them. 31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself. 32 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved. 33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham. 34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises. 35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, commanded it. 36 Abraham was commanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not kill. Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness. 37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods. 38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me. 39 David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord. 40 I am the Lord thy God, and I gave unto thee, my servant Joseph, an appointment, and restore all things. Ask what ye will, and it shall be given unto you according to my word. 41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed. 42 If she be not in the new and everlasting covenant, and she be with another man, she has committed adultery. 43 And if her husband be with another woman, and he was under a avow, he hath broken his vow and hath committed adultery. 44 And if she hath not committed adultery, but is innocent and hath not broken her vow, and she knoweth it, and I reveal it unto you, my servant Joseph, then shall you have power, by the power of my Holy Priesthood, to take her and give her unto him that hath not committed adultery but hath been faithful; for he shall be made ruler over many. 45 For I have conferred upon you the keys and power of the priesthood, wherein I restore all things, and make known unto you all things in due time. 46 And verily, verily, I say unto you, that whatsoever you seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever you bind on earth, in my name and by my word, saith the Lord, it shall be eternally bound in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you remit on earth shall be remitted eternally in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you retain on earth shall be retained in heaven. 47 And again, verily I say, whomsoever you bless I will bless, and whomsoever you curse I will curse, saith the Lord; for I, the Lord, am thy God. 48 And again, verily I say unto you, my servant Joseph, that whatsoever you give on earth, and to whomsoever you give any one on earth, by my word and according to my law, it shall be visited with blessings and not cursings, and with my power, saith the Lord, and shall be without condemnation on earth and in heaven. 49 For I am the Lord thy God, and will be with thee even unto the bend of the world, and through all eternity; for verily I seal upon you your exaltation, and prepare a throne for you in the kingdom of my Father, with Abraham your father. 50 Behold, I have seen your sacrifices, and will forgive all your sins; I have seen your sacrifices in obedience to that which I have told you. Go, therefore, and I make a way for your escape, as I accepted the offering of Abraham of his son Isaac. 51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to prove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice. 52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God. 53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been faithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him. 54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law. 55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an hundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds. 56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid forgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to rejoice. 57 And again, I say, let not my servant Joseph put his property out of his hands, lest an enemy come and destroy him; for Satan seeketh to destroy; for I am the Lord thy God, and he is my servant; and behold, and lo, I am with him, as I was with Abraham, thy father, even unto his exaltation and glory. 58 Now, as touching the law of the priesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto. 59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was Aaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that sent me, and I have endowed him with the keys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit sin, and I will justify him. 60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God. 61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else. 62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.
63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfill the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified. 64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law. 65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take Hagar to wife. 66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.
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It appears that RETENTION is a bit lacking. The BIBLE needs to be re-read and stay away from 'official' LDS 'teachings' for a while.
There are always many who can prophesy, but when it comes to a prophet leading his church, God only chooses one prophet at a time.
1 Kings 19:14-18
14. He replied, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, broken down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too."
15. The LORD said to him, "Go back the way you came, and go to the Desert of Damascus. When you get there, anoint Hazael king over Aram.
16. Also, anoint Jehu son of Nimshi king over Israel, and anoint Elisha son of Shaphat from Abel Meholah to succeed you as prophet.
17. Jehu will put to death any who escape the sword of Hazael, and Elisha will put to death any who escape the sword of Jehu.
18. Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel--all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and all whose mouths have not kissed him."
That can be a bit confusing; eh?
"We do not indorse the teachings of any so-called Mormons or Latter Day Saints, which are in conflict with the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, as taught in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon. They have departed in a great measure from the faith of the Church of Christ as it was first established, by heeding revelations given through Joseph Smith, who, after being called of God to translate his sacred word--the Book of Mormon--drifted into many errors and gave many revelations to introduce doctrines, ordinances and offices in the church, which are in conflict with Christ's teachings."
-- David Whitmer (an elder in the Church of Christ), 1887
Today, there are as many as 100 organizations claiming to be a part of the Latter Day Saint movement, most centered in Utah or Missouri. Most regard their own group, however small, to be the only legitimate Christian church. Most of these organizations are very small, but overall, but the second largest denomination, the Community of Christ, reports over 200,000 members.
Just a sampling...........
Things like this happen when hangin' with MORMON folks for a while; one picks up their thought pattern.
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