You're ALL doomed!
Posted on 11/17/2009 6:46:44 AM PST by topcat54
The doomsday film 2012 had a mega-weekend at the box office. It took in $225 million over a period of five days, a combination of $65 million domestically and $160 million internationally Wednesday through Sunday (Nov. 11–16, 2009). In anticipation of the hype and hysteria of the Mayan Calendar end-of-the-world scenario, Christians had their books ready for an answer. Mark Hitchcock, pastor of Faith Bible Church in Edmond, Oklahoma, is the author of 2012: The Bible and the End of the World. To his credit, Hitchcock offers a critical evaluation of the supposed Mayan prophecy. He even takes issue with the often used argument that the fig tree in Matthew 24:32 describes the reinstitution of the nation of Israel,[1] a point he made in his The Complete Book of Bible Prophecy.[2] In an interview for Christianity Today , Hitchcock said, “It’s the eschatology of the New Age. It’s basically a mystical, New Age belief system that I believe is spiritual deception. I want to take 2012 and bend the curve to God’s purposes, and use this as a springboard to tell people what the Bible says.”
Tim LaHaye, co-author of the multivolume, multimillion, multi-bestseller Left Behind series, offers a similar evaluation. He “believes the 2012 mania is distracting people from what the Bible predicts regarding the Rapture, Tribulation and Second Coming. ‘The date has been picked up by so many groups and cults that you have to conclude that someone or something inspired all these writers to come to essentially the same period—and that would be divination or spiritism,’ LaHaye says. ‘It’s probably satanic because there is nothing in the Bible about it. In fact, the Bible forbids us to even think about a day and an hour.’” But as we’ll see, it’s OK to think about what generation will see prophecy unfold.
I find all of this kind of funny. Now the dispensational prophetic sensationalists have to compete with the crazy New Agers and secular fright mongers. How many decades have we had to endure predictions of an imminent end from Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jerry Falwell, and many others? Falwell (1933–2007) stated on a December 27, 1992, television broadcast, “I do not believe there will be another millennium . . . or another century.” He was wrong. John F. Walvoord, described as “the world’s foremost interpreter of biblical prophecy . . . [expected] the Rapture to occur in his own lifetime.’”[3] It didn’t. Walvoord died in 2002 at the age of 92.These men claim to reject specific date setting, but they have no trouble and see nothing wrong with identifying the last generation. But even in this, their track record has been dismal, and yet they want respect from the non-believing world when they speak on Bible prophecy. For example, in his first edition of The Beginning of the End, which was published in 1972, Tim LaHaye wrote,
“Carefully putting all this together, we now recognize this strategic generation. It is the generation that ‘sees’ the four-part sign of verse 7 [in Matt. 24], or the people who saw the First World War. We must be careful here not to become dogmatic, but it would seem that these people are witnesses to the events, not necessarily participants in them. That would suggest they were at least old enough to understand the events of 1914–1918, not necessarily old enough to go to war.”[4]
A number of things changed in the 1991 revised edition. The “strategic generation” has been modified significantly. It’s no longer “the people who saw the First World War,” it’s now “the generation that ‘sees’ the events of 1948.”
“Carefully putting all this together, we now recognize this strategic generation. It is the generation that ‘sees’ the events of 1948. We must be careful here not to become dogmatic, but it would seem that these people are witnesses to the events, not necessarily participants in them. That would suggest they were at least old enough to understand the events of 1948.”[5]
The change from the years of the First World War to the specific date of 1948 as the starting point for the beginning of the generation that LaHaye claims will be alive when the “rapture” supposedly takes place was not made because of anything the Bible says on the subject. The generation that Jesus had in view in the Olivet Discourse (Matt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21) was the generation of His day. The phrase “this generation” always refers to the generation to whom Jesus was speaking. (For a study of this claim, see Last Days Madness and Is Jesus Coming Soon?) Time was running out for the First World War generation in 1991 when the revised edition of The Beginning of the End was published so LaHaye changed the date to 1948 even though the 40-year generation year of 1988 had passed.[6] LaHaye did not offer justification for the change, and he did not tell those who picked up the new edition that he had made the change.
You will notice in the Christianity Today article that those quoted decry date setting, but some don’t seem to have a problem identifying what generation will be the “last generation.” Here’s how LaHaye explains it: “I refuse to set any date limits, for the Lord didn’t, but he did specify a generation’s experiences and said that he would return during that period. We are in the twilight of that generation—that I firmly believe.”[7] He wrote this nearly 20 years ago! Moreover, Hal Lindsey and Chuck Smith, who made some very definite predictions about “last generation” (that it would end with a “rapture” no later than 1988), seem to get a pass by their fellow dispensationalists who claim to condemn date setting (also see here). Consider this interview that LaHaye had with Larry King on June 19, 2000:
LaHaye: But I think another reason people are interested in [Left Behind ] . . . is because it talks about the future. We’re living at a time when people look at the future and think of it as rather precarious. In fact, there’s a popular book out a couple of years ago on the death of history,[8] and it’s not from a Christian perspective. And so people recognize that something is about to happen. And the Bible has a fantastically optimistic view of the future.King: But weren’t people saying this in 1890 and 1790? “It’s coming. Boy, the apocalypse is coming. The end is near.” They’ve always been saying it.
LaHaye: Well, we have more reason to believe that. Until Israel went back into the promised land, we couldn’t really claim that the end times were coming. But ever since 1948, in subsequent years, we’ve realized that things are getting set up. It’s stage setting for these momentous events.
King: Do you believe that some sort of end is coming?
LaHaye: Yes.
King: You believe that that will happen?
LaHaye: In fact, I believe there are a number of signs in Scripture that indicate it’s going to come pretty soon. We say maybe within our lifetime.
King is right. Making predictions has been the stock and trade of prophecy writers like LaHaye. Of course, they don’t pick a specific date, but they use words like “pretty soon” and “within our lifetime.” If they didn’t make these concessions, their books would not sell. LaHaye’s co-author Jerry Jenkins even wrote a book with the title Soon: The Beginning of the End (2003). Not to be outdone, LaHaye has teamed with Craig Parshall to publish Edge of Apocalypse, an apocalyptic novel “with political intrigue ripped from today’s headlines, the first book in a new series called The End.” Don’t these guys know when to stop? Like those who are attracted to the prophecies of Nostradamus and the Mayan calendar, there is a steady stream of gullible Christians who know nothing about the failed predictions of some of their favorite Christian prophecy writers but are willing to shell out money for prophecy books that in the ned fail to deliver.
New Testament scholar Ben Witherington writes, “The Mayans no more knew when the end would come than anyone else does. It’s time for theological weather forecasting to be given up entirely. Even TV weathermen predicting ordinary events are more accurate.” And this includes the “we know the generation” prophecy writers like LaHaye, Jenkins, Hitchcock, and Parshall.
Endnotes:
[1] Tim LaHaye and many popular prophecy writers see Matthew 24:32 as the key NT prophetic passage: “when a fig tree is used symbolically in Scripture, it usually refers to the nation Israel. If that is a valid assumption (and we believe it is), then when Israel officially became a nation in 1948, that was the ‘sign’ of Matthew 24:1-8, the beginning ‘birth pangs’—it meant that the ‘end of the age’ is ‘near.’” (Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, Are We Living in the End Times? Current Events Foretold in Scripture . . . And What They Mean [Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, 1999], 57). The editors of LaHaye’s own Prophecy Study Bible (2000) disagree: “the fig tree is not symbolic of the nation of Israel” (1040).
[2] Mark Hitchcock, The Complete Book of Bible Prophecy (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, 1999), 158. Hitchcock follows the lead of John F. Walvoord: The fig tree representing Israel "is not so used in the Bible. . . . Accordingly, while this interpretation is held by many, there is no clear scriptural warrant. A better interpretation is that Christ was using a natural illustration.” (John F. Walvoord, Matthew: Thy Kingdom Come [Chicago, IL: Moody, (1974) 1980], 191–192).
[3] Quoted in Kenneth L. Woodward, “The Final Days are Here Again,” Newsweek (March 18, 1991), 55.
[4] Tim LaHaye, The Beginning of the End (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, 1972), 165, 168. Emphasis added.
[5] Tim LaHaye, The Beginning of the End, rev. ed. (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, 1991), 193. Emphasis added.
[6] Hal Lindsey, The Late Great Planet Earth (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1970), 53–54.
[7] LaHaye, The Beginning of the End, rev. ed., 194.
[8] Francis Fukuyama, The End of History and the Last Man (New York: The Free Press, 1992).
“Correctness” or “incorrectness” of ideas aside, I can name at least ONE person here who is not following THAT directive.
I trust only in YHvH and seek His salvation Attempting to brow beat others with your own theology never demonstrates the Chesed (lovingkindness) of Yah'shua. I lean on Paul''s charge to Timothy. Blessings to you and your house. I do not take the xenophobic jingoistic rantings personally.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
provided by the shed blood of His son Yah'shua;
I read the Word with the inspiration of the Ru'ach HaKodesh.
I do not think the message delivered here is intended to imbue anyone with the idea that they will somehow know when the Day of the Lord is upon us. I think it is more of a call to Christians to live their lives at all times as if it can happen right NOW (because it can).
In my opinion, people show disregard for the Scriptures when they claim to unequivocally know that we are definitely in the “end times” - when they declare that they know exactly how the word of God is to be interpreted - and when they devote substantial time, energy and talent to arguing with and admonishing others over relatively minor differences in interpretations of the Bible. It seems to me that all that time, talent and energy would be better spent in trying to live one's own life, and where possible helping others live their lives, in accordance with the instruction Jesus Christ gave us regarding how to treat our fellow man.
I know I am personally no where near where I need to be in that regard and I suspect that anyone who claims to be is deluding themselves.
The person I was thinking about when I made that post was not you.
Blessings to you and your house, as well.
Certainly Christ is the only route to The Father; Salvation etc.
HOWEVER, God can arrange for their blindness to be removed . . . instantly, actually . . . any number of ways. His plans are NOT limited in that regard.
They are certainly not limited by gentile escatalogical bias and blindness.
Always love your work, Bro.
They precede the King James version and were reported to have been directly translated from the orginal languages used by the writers (or at any rate, from such original documents as were available).
How I read the Bible is with my computer I personally prefer the NASB for ease However on difficult passages I have open up I always read 10 to 20 verses before and I may not have answered your question directly, YHvH's blessings on you in you search Many years ago I was in the service overseas,
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
part of my job was to monitor shortwave radio.
We would listen to Radio Moscow and Voice of America.
We would add them up and divide by two.
and a program called BibleWorks
of understanding and literalness.
to 13 versions:
NASB, BHT, WTT, DRA, JPS, KJV, LXE, NAS, NIV,
NJB,TNK, YLT, BGM, BGT & LXT
with interactive concordance with mouse hover.
after the verse in question for context
but I hope I have given you a better answer.
I also use a less expensive program called
the Master Christian Library.
A former pastor told me he paid over
$10,000 for all of the books it contains.
for His Son , YHvH's salvation.
My habit on such scores is quite similar.
BTW what’s your perspective on the
“except the days be shortened” verse?
Doesn’t seem to me it can be fewer days given the specific number of days listed in Daniel etc. etc. Which would leave shorter day lengths . . . by whatever means.
“except the days be shortened” verse?
Doesn’t seem to me it can be fewer days given the specific number of days listed in Daniel etc. etc. Which would leave shorter day lengths . . . by whatever means.
754CE plus 1260 years of Roman rule => 2014CE Look up Yah'shua is coming soon. Some think
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
The number 3 1/2, one-half of 7, is a period of evil cut short, shortened for the elect’s sake ( Matthew 24:22; James 5:17, three years’ and a half drought in Israel; Luke 4:25; Revelation 11:2,3,9; 12:6). Daniel 7:25; 12:7, “time, times, and a half,” “1,260 days,” “three days and a half.” The 42 months (30 days in each) answer to the 1,260 days; three years and a half = 1,260 days (360 in each year). Probably the 1,260 years of the papal rule date from A.D. 754, when his temporal power began, and end
from
Fausset’s Bible Dictionary
NAAM-ZUZIMS
by A. R. Fausset
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
THX.
You're ALL doomed!
No, you are not.
First of all, I can see from your terminology that you are confused.
The distinction in Scripture (when it is appropriate) is between Jews and gentiles, not Jews and Christians. Jews can be Christians. Gentiles can be Christians. But Jews cannot be gentiles, and vice versa.
This manifests another distinction in the Bible, between the physical and the spiritual. A person can be a physical Jew, yet not be one spiritually. "But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, ‘In Isaac your seed shall be called.’" (Romans 9:6,7).
And on the other side, it is also true that one can be physically a gentile, yet not be one spiritually. "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God. " (Rom. 2:28,29) Paul refers to these non-elect Jews as “Israel after the flesh” to distinguish them from the true Israel of God (1 Cor. 10:18; Gal. 6:16).
According to Paul’s testimony, anyone who has been truly circumcised in the heart is considered a spiritual Jew regardless of their physical lineage.
God has only ever had one people. Under the old covenant, that people was made up predominantly (but not exclusively) of the people of Israel. Under the new covenant, that people has been expanded to include people from all nation, peoples, tribes and tongues (Rev. 7:9). But it is still only one people.
So, it is clear that God has not abandoned Israel after the flesh, but is incorporating (regrafting) many of them back into the root by spiritual rebirth. In fact, all those who have been (re-)grafted into the root as the true seed of Abraham and the true Israel of God. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Gal. 3:28,29)
This reclamation of “Israel after the flesh” is what has been going on now for 2000 years and will continue until Christ returns.
I see you’re still playing with garbage . . .
unlike the excellent doc here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2390078/posts?page=24
Sorry, but that is utter nonsense.
So when the fig tree was replanted, that was it...1948 and counting.
That deserves sounding a FUTURIST FANTASY ALERT!!
There was no “fig tree” replanted in 1948.
Not playing, but I can sure smell it from a distance and try to warn others to avoid it.
On horses. Don't forget the horses.
And don't forget that there are not nearly that many horses in the ENTIRE WORLD!
Perhaps we really are dealing with images and symbols here.
I've been watching, waiting for a single verifiable fact or justifiable conjecture. Never got one of those, but one thing I heard repeatedly: the date is supposed to be Dec 21st, 2012.
Perhaps your fingers slipped?
I’ve noted, I think repeatedly,
that I believe that army to be demonic and/or fallen angel forces.
Of course, I don’t expect you to deal with my postings accurately.
How jingoism or xenophobia works it way into this discussion is beyond rational comprehension.
Certainly one is not exhibiting the Chesed of Yah'shua by wild exaggeration.
2 Ti 4:1 [Jesus Christ] shall judge the quick and the dead AT HIS APPEARING.
Seems a bit out of order for what I have been told by Dispensationalists. Jesus Christ is coming to JUDGE. Says so explicitly in the verse you just cited. Doesn’t say anything about coming to setup a kingdom.
All dispensationalists should repeat after Paul:
Jesus Christ shall JUDGE at his appearing.
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