I stand by my post - women are inherently more spiritual than men.
I have no problem with your statement - except that the woman - with all of this built in righteousness - must depend upon the man call her through the veil. Do you have some LDS doctinal source that backs your post?
We never viewed women as property, first owned by their father then by their husbands (which continues to this day in Islam, Sikhism, and Hinduism).
Wow, just wow - you use the word NEVER.
"I think no more of taking another wife than I do of buying a cow."
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, The Twenty Seventh Wife, Irving Wallace, p. 101.
Other ways they were mistreated is found in In Sacred Loneliness by Todd Compton (a practicing mormon iirc)
My Great-Great Grandfather had three wives. His second wife wrote a book about her experience as a polygamous wife.
Her story is immortalized in the book by Juanita Brooks, ed., Not by Bread Alone: The Journal of Martha Spence Heywood, 1850-56 (1978).
Historians consider her diary of the years 1850 to 1856 one of the best personal accounts of that period in Utah. It documents, among other things, the new territory’s intellectual life, the settlement of Nephi, and polygamous family life. Unflinching in her honesty, Martha Heywood records ambivalent feelings about her marriage and the dissatisfaction of some Nephi settlers with her husband’s leadership. Her own self-examination was rigorous; and her diary remains a testament to her integrity.
My Great-great grandfather basically left her alone after he married my 15 year old great-great grandmother, his third wife, when he was 45. My g-g-grandmother, Mary Bell, had been raised by him as his foster child from the time she was orphaned at age 8, in Nauvoo, IL.
It is disgusting - not a story of respect at all.... and Joseph Leland Heywood was seen as an early leader in the LDS Church.
What other Christian Church in history has NOT viewed women as inferior to men? Can you honestly say YOUR church has NEVER viewed women as inferior, ever?
I’ve repeatedly seen you craft arguments against my faith that is much more devastating to yours. This is just one of them.
Lastly, as an ex-military intelligency guy, I find it remarkable at how easy you seem to disregard proper analysis of documents. Case in point is your misrepresentation of Heber Kimball. He wasn’t describing women as inferior; he was describing how the act of marriage doesn’t faze him just like buying a cow is no big deal. Since it takes two to tango, if you interpret his statement to mean women are inferior, then that would mean he thought of himself as inferior as well. After all, there can be no polygamous wife without having her married to a man.
I’ve tended to avoid rude people, those who resort to ridicule instead of crafting a proper response. If you want to engage me in a conversation, be a professional, and maintain the standards that you learned in the military.
I work with a lot of former officers in the US military - (even here in Canada, my entire team are Americans, only one of whom is not ex-military). Not once have I encountered one who treats a subject matter he disagrees with in such a disrespectful and dismissive manner.
I do not believe Catholicism or Protestantism are correct, but I do not write about them the way you do concerning my faith. That’s just embarassing.
Here are more quotes about the subservience of women and women being property
“I say to those who are elected to go on missions, remember they are not your sheep: they belong to Him that sends you. Then do not make a choice of any of those sheep; do not make selections before they are brought home and put into the fold. You under stand that. Amen” - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.256.
“Brethren, I want you to understand that it is not to be as it has been heretofore. The brother missionaries have been in the habit of picking out the prettiest women for themselves before they get here, and bringing on the ugly ones for us; hereafter you have to bring them all here before taking any of them, and let us all have a fair shake.” - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, The Lion of the Lord, New York, 1969, pp.129-30.
“BUT IT IS NOT THE PRIVILEGE OF A WOMAN TO DICTATE THE HUSBAND, AND TELL WHO OR HOW MANY HE SHALL TAKE, OR WHAT HE SHALL DO WITH THEM WHEN HE GETS THEM, BUT IT IS THE DUTY OF THE WOMAN TO SUBMIT CHEERFULLY... “
- Brigham Young; Journal Of Discourses; vol. 17; 159
“If I should undertake to drive a woman, I should have to drive her before me”
JoD 4: 15 Jedediah Grant
“When England and the rest of the nations learn war no more, instead of passing a law in this or any other nation against a man having more than one wife, they will pass a law to make men do as they should in honoring the daughters of Eve and making wives of and providing for them. Will not this be a happy time? Yes, very fine. If you will produce this to-day, I’ll tell you what I would be willing to do, I would be willing to give up half or two-thirds of my wives ... Do this and you are welcome to them. Would I get more wives? If I had a mind to.”
BY JD 12:255
Women are a possession like any other:
“It is also according to the acts of every legislative body throughout the Union, to enjoy all that you are capable of enjoying; but you are forbidden to infringe upon the rights, property, wife, or anything in the possession of your neighbor. “
BY JD 1:358
“Do the women, when they pray, remember their husbands? Do you uphold your husband before God as your lord? What!-my husband to be my lord? I ask, Can you get into the celestial kingdom without him? Have any of you been there? You will remember that you never go into the celestial kingdom (during the temple ceremony) without the aid of your husband. If you did, it was because your husband was away, and some one had to act proxy for him. No woman will get into the celestial kingdom, except her husband receives her, if she is worthy to have a husband; and if not, somebody will receive her as a servant” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p 291)
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife... as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.”
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Latter-day Saint Messenger and Advocate, Nov. 1835
Wont you be so kind and so good as to take those pins or the india-rubber cords out of the back of the skirts of your dresses, so that you will look comely. They make you look uncomely, to see your dresses drawn around you, showing your form. Mothers ought to be ashamed of teaching their children such things.
- Brigham Young; Journal Of Discourses; vol. 19
“But when a man does his duty in providing for a family, there can reasonably be but little complaint on the part of any sensible woman.”
JoD 4:312
“If I should undertake to drive a woman, I should have to drive her before me”
JoD 4: 15 Jedediah Grant
“every ….. man’s wives to take a course to please their husband
JoD 4: 15
“Women were never placed to lead”
JoD 4: 15
“Do the women, when they pray, remember their husbands? Do you uphold your husband before God as your lord? What!-my husband to be my lord? I ask, Can you get into the celestial kingdom without him? Have any of you been there? You will remember that you never go into the celestial kingdom (during the temple ceremony) without the aid of your husband. If you did, it was because your husband was away, and some one had to act proxy for him. No woman will get into the celestial kingdom, except her husband receives her, if she is worthy to have a husband; and if not, somebody will receive her as a servant” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p 291)
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife... as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.”
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Latter-day Saint Messenger and Advocate, Nov. 1835
“Women are queens and priestesses but not gods. The Godhead, the ‘Presidency of Heaven,’ is a presidency of three male deities, similar to a stake presidency whose members each have wives who are responsible for domestic religious education but not ecclesiastical functions.”
- Rodney Turner, retired BYU religion professor, Sunstone Panel Discussion, September 7, 1991.
“When England and the rest of the nations learn war no more, instead of passing a law in this or any other nation against a man having more than one wife, they will pass a law to make men do as they should in honoring the daughters of Eve and making wives of and providing for them. Will not this be a happy time? Yes, very fine. If you will produce this to-day, I’ll tell you what I would be willing to do, I would be willing to give up half or two-thirds of my wives ... Do this and you are welcome to them. Would I get more wives? If I had a mind to.”
BY JD 12:255
Women are a possession like any other:
“It is also according to the acts of every legislative body throughout the Union, to enjoy all that you are capable of enjoying; but you are forbidden to infringe upon the rights, property, wife, or anything in the possession of your neighbor. “
BY JD 1:358