Posted on 07/02/2010 4:43:38 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.
And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand [of him whom] thou wilt send.
And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, [Is] not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do.
And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, [even] he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.
And thou shalt take this rod in thine hand, wherewith thou shalt do signs. - Exodus 4:10-17
I see you have learned to use cut-and-paste, sadly this proves nothing.
Understand: I know that the Father has declared the Torah will stand FOREVER.
[...] However, the Torah commands one to heed prophets. However, this does not extend to a "prophet" who would end or replace the Torah (and please spare me the word games about how "J*sus fulfilled the Torah, he didn't replace it").
Jesus, nor any of His disciples sought to change the Torah. Indeed He declares not one jot or tittle...
What do you think is changed?
The priesthood, no doubt. But the order of Melchizedek transcends Aaron (see Gen 14:18) and is foretold by David (Psa 110 I think) wrt Messiah. So is it change?
The Blood Atonement, I suppose... But wait... No, It still requires blood to cover sin... But what blood can possibly be of better worth than Messiah's? This is also foretold in a thousand ways, though none perhaps, as well as Isaiah 53...
The sacrificial system was certainly impacted - But I really don't know the extent of that - Christians will be surprised by the sacrificial system being re-instituted when Messiah comes... But Judah is far away from that old system too - so I don't know if he can tell the differences either. No doubt we will learn of that together.
The Covenant of Grace? Faith being counted as righteousness? All over the Old Covenant. What is it that offends, except perhaps that Yehoshua is of Judah?
You are wrong! Only the Torah was directly written by G-d Himself and dictated letter-for-letter. The Prophecies and Hagiographa were written in the words of the human authors.
I said the scribes and prophets carried the "signature" of God, not that they were God Himself. There is no denying the influence of the Spirit while they were writing. do you think that the books of the great prophets can contain mistakes? If they do, as you know, they are not prophets.
The same can be said of the scribes who wrote the teaching books - Did they know they were writing prophecy into the words? What book in your canon does not contain that prophetic signature? Is there any doubt of the Spirit upon David?
Plus there have always been many religious books that have claimed to be scripture.
I know. I have read more of them than you probably assume.
Do you know why decides what is and what is not Scripture? The duly-constituted religious authority, that is who. I accept the Na"KH because I accept the authority, under the Torah, of the Men of the Great Assembly who compiled and canonized it.
Stop: Def plz= Na"KH... I suppose it is Tanakh less Torah.
Continuing =>
Now, is it your opinion that I should bow to Rome, then? LOL! No. That will not happen. Nor can I (perfectly) accept the authority of my larger Church (Presbyterianism), for the discovery that there is still much of Rome left in her.
And therein lies the problem for Christians, or at least for Protestants. If they function on the premise of sola-scriptura, rejecting the traditions that had obviously led Christianity astray for a millennium and more, reverting to the originating documents, they are accused of having no presiding authority. To some, it seems, it would be better for them to submit to Rome upon that basis.
But we have seen this very same thing played out before. The House of Israel was rejected for the "traditions" they added to the Torah - And the House of Judah faired no better - Their House (Temple) is left desolate, for the very same crimes. Nehemiah read the Torah to the people. Not the traditions. Yet by the time of Christ, tradition far outweighed the Word of God.
Then we don't need a "new" testament or a chr*stian religion.
Then we need no Mosaic law either... The Abramic Covenant was before it - why change? Or lets all just go back to the Covenant of Noah, and forget about the whole business.
I do not see these covenants in any way other than an expanding succession. Did the Covenant of Moses make null the Covenant of Abraham? Did the Davidic Covenant make null the Covenant of Moses? Each has subsumed, or been joined to it's successor, yet they all stand alone as well. The Covenant of Grace does the same thing.
Note that I am painfully aware that my Jewish brethren look upon my Lord, and the Covenant of Grace in the same fashion that I look upon Mormonism, and their prophet... Or maybe even conflate us with Rome, or even compare us to Mohammad... There is nothing I can do about that. But it grieves me deeply.
It is my opinion that Christians have much to learn from Judah, and Judah much to learn from us. Until the Father sees fit to unstop our ears, and take the scales from our eyes, we will just have to wait.
What was the difference between the Pharisees, Sadducees, and the Essenes?
Wasn't it that some accepted less or more of the canon/tradition? How are the Nazarenes any different?
Okay...Let’s talk *Animal Sacrafice* from your perspective why does command a innocent animal to die for a human being sins?
If a blood sacrafice is required why did the animal have to be spotless and blameless?
Now does this not sound *Oh to familar when speaking of Jesus?
Animal sacrifice is an important theme found throughout Scripture because “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Hebrews 9:22)
John the Baptist recognized this when he saw Jesus coming to be baptized and said, “Look, the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29). Ask yourself, why animals? What did they do wrong? That is the point—since the animals did no wrong, they died in place of the one performing the sacrifice. Jesus Christ also did no wrong but willingly gave Himself to die for the sins of mankind (1 Timothy 2:6). Jesus Christ took our sin upon Himself and died in our place. As 2 Corinthians 5:21 says, “God made him [Jesus] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” Through faith in what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross, we can receive forgiveness.
Yep pretty clear.
My question is exactly that..Why would G-D command a Blood Sacrafice from an animal for a human beings wrong..now I am not questioning G-D’s commandments just want to understand them, and without the Blood Sacrafice of Jesus Christ blood sacrafice from an animal makes no sense at all....
G-D is not a G-D of confusement and would not use animal sacrafice, if he did not intend for us to truly understand the *Lamb of GOD* who taketh away the Sins of the World..
I can understand that.
My style . . . for good and bad . . .
is more to take plausible, at least somewhat reasonable things at face value at first and see what filters out.
I think that correlates with another tendency—that likes to creatively ponder and imagine new relationships, events, happenings etc.
Correct
"who is going to teach this *Universal Knowledge*? this man you are waiting for? how is he going to accomplish that?"
Moshiach will teach this...and how? The technology clearly exists today.
Now are you saying the Same G-D who created *Perfection* in the Garden is now going to command sacrafice (Animal) when the Messiah you await is to bring world peace and perfection in the earth with Universal Knowledge of G-D? where is this written????
Sheesh Tara...Ezek 43/44 Zech 14:21, Jer 33:16-18....Yes, what is so odd about that? "What is the need for continue sacrafice?"
Again, sheesh Tara...the law is commanded forever! (Do you ever read my posts? I have given you that scripture like a hundred times! :o) The need is because Geezuz didnt die for any sins...It is IMPOSSIBLE for him to die for anyones sins....again I have posted the scripture to you many times.
"1.Do you think this Messiah you await is going to bring more Joy to people that have already found completeness, inner joy and happiness with the Holy Spirit of Christ?"
Yes, defintely! When a pesron has a counterfeit and then is given the real thing...it is most joyfull! Especially when a person repents of being an idol worshiper! It is a big relief!
"2. Is this Man you await (Messiah) going to die? "
He is a mortal man...he will live G-d willing a long life and die. He will be replaced by another to sit on the throne.
"3. Who is going to rule the people of the world when this Man who is Messiah you await comes? Is he going to be the ruler of all mankind? "
He will be the spiritual leader of all mankind.
"4. Lastly Blaster- If this Man Messiah you await going to have the ability to take away Man’s Free Will? "
No, we still have free will.
Both the “CATCHING AWAY” coming as well as
the 2nd Coming setting foot on the Mt of Olives which will cleave in half forming a big valley of given dimensions . . .
are both well documented in Scripture.
I think it was in the 50’s or 60’s that Shell oil geologists verified that the Mt of Olives is all cocked and ready to do just that, leaving a valley just as Scripture describes.
Given the clear Scriptural documentation, if you won’t believe Scripture that you should already know, I’m sure you haven’t the slightest interest in believing my quoting of same yet again.
They were just as divided on their *beliefs* as many of us today are...I believe he Essenes were believers in *Gnostisism...Pharisees were *teachers of the law* but forgot to teach the Love of GOD....
I don’t think we have a clue about the sacrifices in the Millenial age. The Scriptures about such are very cryptic. They are a mystery from a number of perspectives.
Interesting point.
And a curious thing.
People are so . . . we are so . . .
fickle and doubtful so often of so much when God would have us much otherwise—trusting Him fully in all things.
Thx for your kind reply.
Just finished the fireworks . . . good view of our wealthy neighbor’s display—which was bigger than the cities.’ Of course, our neighbor also owns the bluffs to shoot them off from.
. . . I pray we have such next year . . .
Gads times are changing faster and faster.
Maranatha! Jesus!
*I Do READ YOUR POSTS*
Sheesh Tara...Ezek 43/44 Zech 14:21, Jer 33:16-18....Yes, what is so odd about that? “What is the need for continue sacrafice?”
Again, sheesh Tara...the law is commanded forever! (Do you ever read my posts? This is not what I am saying or asking...
I am asking you in the Garden of Eden when Mankind was created, was it G-D’s intention to have *Sacrafice*? Do you believe G-D created animals in the Garden because he knew he was going to command them to Sacrafice? Why are we not able to live like G-D’s initial intention for Adam and Eve.
I know Jews who have found their Savior, Jesus. That is nothing new. One I know has a ministry and his teachings are awesome. His Jewish roots and knowledge of Hebrew are a blessing to The Body of Christ.
Aren’t there OT Scriptures about the Messiah sitting on the Throne of David forever?
I’ve forgotten.
I just don’t see a need for *Sacrafices* from scripture in the Millenial Age...I believe we will worship G-D in all his splendor and Glory, I think we will learn about G-D from Jesus (The Cosmological Factor) however I do believe one thing that I think Jews also believe and that is *Reward and Accomplishment* I think our worhsip and knowledge will elevate us or not to the levels of the *Divine Realm* in the Mellenial Age..
However, there ARE
Scriptural mentions of sacrifices in the Millenial period, IIRC.
They’ve always been a mystery to me. I don’t know of anyone who’s had the least clue about what they mean.
Certainly Christ is the complete Sacrifice for sins and Salvation.
Are they strictly a memorial sort of thing . . . a grain offering . . . that’s not quite a sacrifice.
I don’t have the ref’s handy.
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