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Posted on 07/06/2010 6:54:33 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
LOL! Sorry to hear you’re feeling bad, but GLAD to see you’re here! Somehow, posting here takes a LOT of attention away from the pain! Take care! SVITW
One of my friends calls the Holy Spirit ‘slapping her upside the head’ getting ‘chuck norris’d’.
And yet disagreements on even those supposedly "clear" topics have led to actual and significant bloodshed -- not to mention schism after schism after schism. [r9etb]
Come on now, R9etb. Yes, we could dredge up millions of families that have been torn apart where both or all parties were at fault. But to then imply an assumption -- as it appears you have done -- that every family schism is rooted in an improper "blueprint" of families is off-base. You know as well as I do, faithful parties exist who have tried to make relationships work even though the "alienated" person (a spouse, or a teen, or young adult) is pulling away. You can't blame all schisms on the blueprint, or the structure, etc. pertaining to all parties involved -- as if lack of clarity exists everywhere.
Of course, w/the above I use "families" as an analogy...but what are individual churches and larger church bodies but extended families?
Let me provide another analogy: Crime-wise, we know of counterfeiter operations. Although more associated with white-collar crime today, that wasn't true when counterfeiting started to become big business at the turn of the 20th century. Over 100 years ago in NY/NJ, the Mob gangs with names like Morello, Fratto, Clemente, Guillambardo, De Primo, Crose were linked to counterfeiting and also to plenty of bloodshed (including some of their own at the hands of other gangs). For source, see: http://www.gangrule.com/events.php?ID=2
My point? When the operations of counterfeiters leads to huge conflicts of whatever sort -- including as you said "significant bloodshed" -- what? Do we just blame all the parties involved as lacking proper understanding, clarity, direction, interpretation of the basic non-negotiables?
Or is it just possible that several types of people wind up eroding what is actually understandable by illumination of the Holy Spirit? (And some of these do indeed thereby wreak havoc on the Church-at-Large by their lack of understanding, etc.)
John and Jesus outlined some of these types:
...schismatics like Diotrephes...
..."deceivers" as mentioned in places like 2 John and Acts 20...
...and 4 groups of people Jesus identifies in Matthew 13...only one of which features lasting fruit via God's Word:
John: ...Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will have nothing to do with us. 10So if I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, gossiping maliciously about us. Not satisfied with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church. (3 John 9-10)
Jesus in Matthew 13:18-23 (see also earlier verses for pull impact of parable):
18"Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:
Group A: 19When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.
Group B: 20The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.
Group C: 22The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.
Group D: 23But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown."
Bottom line, r9etb -- when misunderstanding occurs, Jesus has blamed it upon...
* Satan (Mt. 13:19) as applied to one group -- the misunderstanders;
* the world -- as weakening those who fail to take His Word deeply, winding up falling prey to oppression & persecution (v. 21);
* & wealth's deceitfulness & life worries (v. 22)
And then there's the counterfeiters -- the deceivers:
John: 7Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. 11Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. (2 John 7-11)
[Keep in mind this last passage, when it references "house" -- is referencing where they worshiped at that time -- houses]
Please provide us with the link for the official infallible magisterial commentary of the entire bible ?
Come on down!
In my experience, most Mormons do not know that much about their founding documents and a LOT of the details of their beliefs.
Agree
LOL.
WORKS FOR ME
INDEED!
INDEED!
Thank you for your testimony ....
My spare tire has shrunk considerably given the limited choices . . .
However, I’m sure it would be gone by now if I’d not been indulging myself in Hagen Daz.
LOL.
INDEED.
THX.
if I remember isn’t it that hand shake?
I’m sure quite a number hereon would be shocked to find out that a lot of folks had called me that.
However, it’s not always my priority role with 100% of everyone in all contexts and circumstances.
I don’t know if I’d be bored if that were my only role, or not. Being an encourager is quite rewarding.
In any case . . . I don’t have to be concerned about having one and only one role in the Body of Christ. LOL.
You know everyone has their own way. My brother maybe one of the kindness, genital people I know. He is soft spoken and loving.
I am more of the type to draw blood.
We are different people and we are moved in different ways.
I am thankful that God has given us each different ways about us.
There are many people in the world who respond differently.
We are on opposite ends of this battle in techniques.
Jesus was both genital and had righteous anger. You need to work in the manner in which you are moved by the Spirit.
= = =
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
So what? Survey every American married couple on 100 significant worldviews, and see how many they actually agree upon. I mean these couples may match up in 25 to 28 of E-harmony's 29 dimensions of compatibility, but they might be fortunate to match up on half of 100 significant worldviews.
Would we use the mismatched answers among such hypothetical couples, the way you have done repeatedly on this thread, to call into question that there is no "real right worldview" to be had on those questions?
And BTW, I've stated this in the "negative"; were I to state this in the "positive," just think of how many things couples actually do agree upon -- a miracle in itself...and then broaden that to the nuclear family, extended families, etc.
As an example, even such Protestant giants as Luther and Calvin strongly disagreed on the matter of the Real Presence in the Lord's Supper.
Yes, but even Calvin, were you have been able to interview him, when asked if he would believe Matthew 28:20: And surely I [Jesus] am with you always, to the very end of the age." Calvin would say "yes" -- meaning he recognized the omnipresence of Christ being everywhere, including at the altar during a worship service...What? You think Calvin would say that was the only place Jesus was not?
Excellent post
Too true.
thx.
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