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The Confession of Cyril Lucaris
The Voice ^ | 1692 | Cyril Lucaris

Posted on 07/22/2010 11:01:11 AM PDT by the_conscience

Edited on 07/23/2010 8:45:24 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

[snip]

The Confession

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit Cyril, Patriarch of Constantinople, publishes this brief Confession for the benefit of those who inquire about the faith and the religion of the Greeks, that is of the Eastern Church, in witness to God and to men and with a sincere conscience without any dissimulation.

Chapter 1.

We believe in one God, true, Almighty, and in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; the Father unbegotten, the Son begotten of the Father before the world, consubstantial with the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father by the Son, having the same essence with the Father and the son. We call these three persons in one essence the Holy Trinity, ever to be blessed, glorified, and worshipped by every creature.

Chapter 2.

We believe the Holy Scripture to be given by God, to have no other author but the Holy Spirit. This we ought undoubtedly to believe, for it is written. We have a more sure word of prophecy, to which you do well to take heed, as to light shining in a dark place. We believe the authority of the Holy Scripture to be above the authority of the Church. To be taught by the Holy Spirit is a far different thing from being taught by a man; for man may through ignorance err, deceive and be deceived, but the word of God neither deceives nor is deceived, nor can err, and is infallible and has eternal authority.

Chapter 3.

We believe that the most merciful God has predestined His elect unto glory before the beginning of the world, without any respect of their works and that there was no other impulsive cause to this election, but only the good will and mercy of God. In like manner before the world was made, He rejected whom He would, of which act of reprobation, if you consider the absolute dealing of God, His will is the cause; but if you look upon the laws and principles of good order, which God’s providence is making use of in the government of the world, His justice is the cause, for God is merciful and just.

Chapter 4.

We believe that one God in Trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, to be the Creator of all things visible and invisible. Invisible things we call the angels, visible things we call the heavens and all things under them. And because the Creator is good by nature, He has created all things good, and He cannot do any evil; and if there is any evil, it proceeds either from the Devil or from man. For it ought to be a certain rule to us, that God is not the Author of evil, neither can sin by any just reason be imputed to Him.

Chapter 5.

We believe that all things are governed by God’s providence, which we ought rather to adore than to search into. Since it is beyond our capacity, neither can we truly understand the reason of it from the things themselves, in which matter we suppose it better to embrace silence in humility than to speak many things which do not edify.

Chapter 6.

We believe that the first man created by God fell in Paradise, because he neglected the commandment of God and yielded to the deceitful counsel of the serpent. From thence sprung up original sin to his posterity, so that no man is born according to the flesh who does not bear this burden and feel the fruits of it in his life.

Chapter 7.

We believe that Jesus Christ our Lord emptied Himself, that is He assumed man’s nature into His own substance. That He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the ever virgin Mary, was born, suffered death, was buried, and risen in glory, that He might bring salvation and glory to all believers, Whom we look for to come to judge both quick and dead.

Chapter 8.

We believe that our Lord Jesus Christ sits on the right hand of His Father and there He makes intercession for us, executing alone the office of a true and lawful high priest and mediator, and from there He cares for His people and governs His Church adorning and enriching her with many blessings.

Chapter 9.

We believe that without faith no man can be saved. And we call faith that which justifies in Christ Jesus, which the life and death of our Lord Jesus Christ procured, the Gospel published, and without which no man can please God.

Chapter 10.

We believe that the Church, which is called catholic, contains all true believers in Christ, those who having departed their country are in heaven and those who live on earth are yet on the way. The Head of that Church (because a mortal man by no means can be) is Jesus Christ alone, and He holds the rudder of the government of the Church in His own hand. Because, however, there are on earth particular visible Churches, every one of them has one chief, who is not properly to be called [head] of that particular Church, but improperly, because he is the principal member of it.

Chapter 11.

We believe that the members of the Catholic Church are saints, chosen unto eternal life, from the number and fellowship of which hypocrites are excluded, though in particular visible churches tares may be found among the wheat.

Chapter 12.

We believe that the Church on earth is sanctified and instructed by the Holy Spirit, for He is the true comforter, whom Christ sends from the Father to teach the truth and to expel darkness form the understanding of the faithful. For it is true and certain that the Church on earth may err, choosing falsehood instead of truth, from which error the light and doctrine of the Holy Spirit alone frees us, not of mortal man, although by mediation of the labors of the faithful ministers of the Church this may be done.

Chapter 13.

We believe that man is justified by faith and not by works. But when we say by faith, we understand the correlative or object of faith, which is the righteousness of Christ, which, as if by hand, faith apprehends and applies unto us for our salvation. This we say without any prejudice to good works, for truth itself teaches us that works must not be neglected, that they are necessary means to testify to our faith and confirm our calling. But that works are sufficient for our salvation, that they can enable one to appear before the tribunal of Christ and that of their own merit they can confer salvation, human frailty witnesses to be false; but the righteousness of Christ being applied to the penitent, alone justifies and saves the faithful.

Chapter 14.

We believe that free will is dead in the unregenerate, because they can do no good thing, and whatsoever they do is sin; but in the regenerate by the grace of the Holy Spirit the will is excited and in deed works but not without the assistance of grace. In order, therefore, that man should be born again and do good, it is necessary that grace should go before; otherwise man is wounded having received as many wounds as that man received who going from Jerusalem down to Jericho fell into the hands of thieves, so that of himself he cannot do anything.

Chapter 15.

We believe that the Evangelical Sacraments in the Church are those that the Lord instituted in the Gospel, and they are two; these only have been delivered unto us and He who instituted them delivered unto us no more. Furthermore, we believe that they consist of the Word and the Element, that they are the seals of the promises of God, and they do confer grace. But that the Sacrament be entire and whole, it is requisite that an earthly substance and an external action concur with the use of that element ordained by Christ our Lord and joined with a true faith, because the defect of faith prejudices the integrity of the Sacrament.

Chapter 16.

We believe that Baptism is a Sacrament instituted by the Lord, and unless a man has received it, he has no communion with Christ, from whose death, burial, and glorious resurrection the whole virtue and efficacy of Baptism proceeds; therefore, we are certain that to those who are baptized in the same form which our Lord commanded in the Gospel, both original and actual sins are pardoned, so that whosoever has been washed in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit are regenerate, cleansed, and justified. But concerning the repetition of it, we have no command to be rebaptized, therefore we must abstain from this indecent thing.

Chapter 17.

We believe that the other Sacrament which was ordained by the Lord is that which we call Eucharist. For in the night in which the Lord offered up Himself, He took bread and blessed it and He said to the Apostles, "Take ye, eat, this is my body," and when He had taken the cup, He gave thanks and said, "Drink all of this, this is my blood which was shed for many; this do in remembrance of me." And Paul adds, "For as often as ye shall eat of this bread and drink of this cup, ye do show the Lord’s death." This is the pure and lawful institution of this wonderful Sacrament, in the administration of which we profess the true and certain presence of our Lord Jesus Christ; that presence, however, which faith offers to us, not that which the devised doctrine of transubstantiation teaches. For we believe that the faithful eat the body of Christ in the Supper of the Lord, not by breaking it with the teeth of the body, but by perceiving it with the sense and feeling of the soul, since the body of Christ is not that which is visible in the Sacrament, but that which faith spiritually apprehends and offers to us; from whence it is true that, if we believe, we do eat and partake, if we do not believe, we are destitute of all the fruit of it. We believe, consequently, that to drink the cup in the Sacrament is to be partaker of the true blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, in the same manner as we affirmed of the body; for as the Author of it commanded concerning His body, so He did concerning His blood; which commandment ought neither to be disremembered nor maimed, according to the fancy of man’s arbitrament; yea rather the institution ought to be kept as it was delivered to us. When therefore we have been partakers of the body and blood of Christ worthily and have communicated entirely, we acknowledge ourselves to be reconciled, united to our Head of the same body, with certain hope to be co-heirs in the Kingdom to come.

Chapter 18.

We believe that the souls of the dead are either in blessedness or in damnation, according as every one has done, for as soon as they move out of the body they pass either to Christ or into hell; for as a man is found at his death, so he is judged, and after this life there is neither power nor opportunity to repent; in this life there is a time of grace, they therefore who be justified here shall suffer no punishment hereafter; but they who die, being not justified, are appointed for everlasting punishment. By which it is evident that the fiction of Purgatory is not to be admitted but in the truth it is determined that every one ought to repent in this life and to obtain remission of his sins by our Lord Jesus Christ, if he will be saved. And, let this be the end.

This brief Confession of ours we conjecture will be a sign spoken against them who are pleased to slander and persecute us. But we trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and hope that He will not relinquish the cause of His faithful ones, nor let the rod of wickedness lie upon the lost of the righteous.

Dated in Constantinople in the month of March, 1629. Cyril, Patriarch of Constantinople

[snip]


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This Caucus is open to all Protestants who confess the 5 Solas which are: Justification by grace alone, through faith alone, because of Christ alone, to the glory of God alone and Scripture as the rule of faith alone. It is open to all Eastern Orthodox. If you are Protestant and do not subscribe to the five solas please do not participate. Roman Catholics please do not trash our thread. We're trying to have a friendly dialogue here.
1 posted on 07/22/2010 11:01:13 AM PDT by the_conscience
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To: the_conscience
I'm not trashing the thread, but it should be pointed out that the Eastern Orthodox Church formally condemned each Reformed thesis in this Confession point by point at the Synod of Jerusalem.

The fathers of that Synod went so far as to state that the Confession must have been a forgery (pretty much every historian would dispute that and would consider it an authentic work of Lucaris).

Lucaris cannot legitimately be represented as in the mainstream of Orthodox theology, as much as Reformed believers would like for him to be. His position is similar to that of Bessarion, whom Catholics would like to think of as being in the mainstream of Orthodox theology, but who was not either.

2 posted on 07/22/2010 11:13:42 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: the_conscience

Interesting post.


3 posted on 07/22/2010 11:14:03 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: Religion Moderator; wideawake

They just can’t help themselves. Please remove post.


4 posted on 07/22/2010 11:15:40 AM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: the_conscience

I hope this is not trashing. From the article
“We believe in one God, true, Almighty, and in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; the Father unbegotten, the Son begotten of the Father before the world, consubstantial with the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father by the Son, having the same essence with the Father and the son. We call these three persons in one essence the Holy Trinity, ever to be blessed, glorified, and worshipped by every creature.”

One of the biggest causes of schism remaining between the Eastern Church and the Western Church is the Filoque clause added to the Nicene Creed in the West. I wonder if the Nicene Creed in the Western Church was changed to state “the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father by the Son,” if that would correctly reflect both Eastern and Western universal teachings on the Holy Spirit and end the Filoque controversy?


5 posted on 07/22/2010 11:26:05 AM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: lastchance

Good question!


6 posted on 07/22/2010 11:28:22 AM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: the_conscience

Your source and post gives the impression that Greek Orthodox teaching is compatible with Reformed Theology. It is not. This is not in any way an attempt to trash the five solas and it would be interesting to understand why the doctrine did not gain a foothold in the East.

Are the five solas strongly Western? How does the influence of the writings of Saint Augustine on Calvin prejudice Eastern theologians of the 16th century? When Cyril Lucaris wrote about the “Church” did he mean a visible church?

You did list this as an Eastern Orthodox caucus so I think a discussion of Eastern Orthodox beliefs is not out of place nor is it trashing.


7 posted on 07/22/2010 11:39:38 AM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: the_conscience

Interesting indeed. Is this still the faith of the Eastern Orthodox?

I would buy into each of the chapters above with the exception that I had difficulty understanding the last half of chapter 13.


8 posted on 07/22/2010 11:40:38 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
Is this still the faith of the Eastern Orthodox?

No. Never was. Never will be.

9 posted on 07/22/2010 11:47:12 AM PDT by don-o (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
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To: lastchance

Are you Eastern Orthodox. If not, why is it so hard to follow the rules?


10 posted on 07/22/2010 11:48:38 AM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: xzins

“I had difficulty understanding the last half of chapter 13.”

I think he’s just saying works don’t MERIT justification.


11 posted on 07/22/2010 11:51:40 AM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: wideawake

“Lucaris cannot legitimately be represented as in the mainstream of Orthodox theology, as much as Reformed believers would like for him to be.”

The source website is Wesley-Arminian.


12 posted on 07/22/2010 11:53:25 AM PDT by Augustinian monk ("Too many freaks and not enough circus tents")
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To: don-o

did cyril patriarch of constantinople not write it?


13 posted on 07/22/2010 11:57:11 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: lastchance
There have been several attempts at rewording the Creed, such as the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son. The disagreement between the East and West is the difference between origin and agent. The West, in order to safeguard the divinity of Christ, added the Filioque. It makes the Son and the Father the origin of the Holy Spirit. The East places the origin of the Son and the Holy Spirit from the Father alone. Jesus is the agent of the Spirit, namely, he sends the Spirit.
14 posted on 07/22/2010 12:10:30 PM PDT by Nosterrex
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To: the_conscience
This Caucus is open to all Protestants who confess the 5 Solas which are: Justification by grace alone, through faith alone, because of Christ alone, to the glory of God alone and Scripture as the rule of faith alone. It is open to all Eastern Orthodox. If you are Protestant and do not subscribe to the five solas please do not participate. Roman Catholics please do not trash our thread. We're trying to have a friendly dialogue here.

What if you're not a Protestant, a Catholic, or an Eastern Orthodox, but you do hold to the five solas, despite not being a Calvinist?

15 posted on 07/22/2010 12:24:28 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity. - Dr. Wm R. Thompson)
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To: the_conscience

I do apologize. I honestly thought if it was kept within the bounds of topic it was o.k. to comment. I am not Eastern Orthodox but do have an interest in Eastern theology especially as it is received by the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches. I did not mean any disprespect and my question was meant for historical reflection. And not as any bashing of the belief in the five solas.

Again I apologize and I would enjoy reading responses from EO freepers. Who knows maybe the whole Filoque controversy can be ironed out right in this thread.


16 posted on 07/22/2010 12:31:37 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: the_conscience; Religion Moderator; don-o; NYer; Salvation; Pyro7480; Coleus; narses; annalex; ...
The Head of that Church (because a mortal man by no means can be) is Jesus Christ alone, and He holds the rudder of the government of the Church in His own hand. Because, however, there are on earth particular visible Churches, every one of them has one chief, who is not properly to be called [head] of that particular Church, but improperly, because he is the principal member of it.

This statement clearly refers to the pope, so the caucus designation needs to come off.

Nevermind the FACT that the Confession of Cyril Lucaris what totally rejected by the Orthodox at the Synod of Jerusalem in the late 17th Century.

17 posted on 07/22/2010 12:35:51 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: xzins

“Interesting indeed. Is this still the faith of the Eastern Orthodox?”

“Is this still”, assumes it ever was. Well, I’m very sorry but it never was. Nor will it ever be.


18 posted on 07/22/2010 12:37:04 PM PDT by arielguard (Fasting without prayer is vainglory.)
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My goodness! This thread is be overrun by Romanists.

Can I get a witness?!


19 posted on 07/22/2010 12:38:16 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: lastchance

See my post #17, you have NOTHING to apologize for.


20 posted on 07/22/2010 12:38:22 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: xzins

http://www.patriarchate.org/greek/list/index.php?lang=en&id=202

This thread is ridiculous. Last posting from me. Link above for more details of this doleful chapter.


21 posted on 07/22/2010 12:38:33 PM PDT by don-o (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
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To: wagglebee

I do see your point. But in order not to engender bad feelings I’ll await word from the moderators.


22 posted on 07/22/2010 12:40:41 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: the_conscience

Arielguard is an Orthodox Christian.


23 posted on 07/22/2010 12:42:57 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: lastchance

I appreciate your intent. Unfortunately some of your coreligionists are unable to control themselves and their only concern is disrupting things around here. You seem to be one of the few reasonable amongst your party so I have no problem with your posting on this thread.


24 posted on 07/22/2010 12:44:31 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: the_conscience; lastchance; don-o
I appreciate your intent. Unfortunately some of your coreligionists are unable to control themselves and their only concern is disrupting things around here.

Which post?

25 posted on 07/22/2010 12:46:27 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: lastchance; the_conscience; arielguard; don-o

I think the_conscience only wanted this thread to be open to members of the Orthodox Church who do happen to support the “five solas”.


26 posted on 07/22/2010 12:48:38 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: the_conscience

Thank you for the invite but I have to finish making a batch of soap. I’ll peek in to see its progress.


27 posted on 07/22/2010 12:51:00 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: the_conscience
It's interesting history.

However his ultimate aim was to reform the Orthodox Church along Calvinistic lines, and to this end he sent many young Greek theologians to the universities of Switzerland, the northern Netherlands and England. In 1629 he published his famous Confessio (Calvinistic doctrine), but as far as possible accommodated to the language and creeds of the Orthodox Church. It appeared the same year in two Latin editions, four French, one German and one English, and in the Eastern Church started a controversy which culminated in 1672 with the convocation by Dositheos, Patriarch of Jerusalem, of the Synod of Jerusalem by which the Calvinistic doctrines were condemned.

Cyril was also particularly well disposed towards the Anglican Church, and his correspondence with the Archbishops of Canterbury is extremely interesting. It was in his time that Mitrophanes Kritopoulos - later to become Patriarch of Alexandria (1636–1639) was sent to England to study. Both Lucaris and Kritopoulos were lovers of books and manuscripts, and many of the items in the collections of books and these two Patriarchs acquired manuscripts that today adorn the Patriarchal Library.

Lucaris was several times temporarily deposed and banished at the instigation of both his Orthodox opponents and the Jesuits, who were his bitterest enemies. Finally, when the Ottoman Sultan Murad IV was about to set out for the Persian War, the patriarch was accused of a design to stir up the Cossacks, and to avoid trouble during his absence the Sultan had him killed by the Janissaries on June 27, 1638 aboard a ship in the Bosporus. His body was thrown into the sea, but it was recovered and buried at a distance from the capital by his friends, and only brought back to Constantinople after many years.

No relation.
28 posted on 07/22/2010 1:35:45 PM PDT by dangus
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To: the_conscience
It's interesting history.

However his ultimate aim was to reform the Orthodox Church along Calvinistic lines, and to this end he sent many young Greek theologians to the universities of Switzerland, the northern Netherlands and England. In 1629 he published his famous Confessio (Calvinistic doctrine), but as far as possible accommodated to the language and creeds of the Orthodox Church. It appeared the same year in two Latin editions, four French, one German and one English, and in the Eastern Church started a controversy which culminated in 1672 with the convocation by Dositheos, Patriarch of Jerusalem, of the Synod of Jerusalem by which the Calvinistic doctrines were condemned.

Cyril was also particularly well disposed towards the Anglican Church, and his correspondence with the Archbishops of Canterbury is extremely interesting. It was in his time that Mitrophanes Kritopoulos - later to become Patriarch of Alexandria (1636–1639) was sent to England to study. Both Lucaris and Kritopoulos were lovers of books and manuscripts, and many of the items in the collections of books and these two Patriarchs acquired manuscripts that today adorn the Patriarchal Library.

Lucaris was several times temporarily deposed and banished at the instigation of both his Orthodox opponents and the Jesuits, who were his bitterest enemies. Finally, when the Ottoman Sultan Murad IV was about to set out for the Persian War, the patriarch was accused of a design to stir up the Cossacks, and to avoid trouble during his absence the Sultan had him killed by the Janissaries on June 27, 1638 aboard a ship in the Bosporus. His body was thrown into the sea, but it was recovered and buried at a distance from the capital by his friends, and only brought back to Constantinople after many years.

No relation.
29 posted on 07/22/2010 1:36:06 PM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

It’s such an interesting story that it’s twice as nice?

I know you’re a Romanist but do the Easterners consider him a great martyr for their religion?


30 posted on 07/22/2010 2:11:20 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: the_conscience

Since he was condemned as a heretic, I guess not. But Orthodox don’t seem to think in patterns which I find predictable, so I’m hesitant to draw any syllogisms.


31 posted on 07/22/2010 2:56:24 PM PDT by dangus
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To: the_conscience

Oh, by the way... The term is “Catholic,” not “Romanist.” Just as “Orthodox” doesn’t imply that Catholics aren’t orthodox, neither does Catholic imply that Orthodox aren’t catholic. A Protestant (or other non-Catholic Christian) calling a Catholic “Romanist” is just as offensive as a Catholic calling a Protestant “Apostate” or “Schismatic.”

For the record, the Vatican isn’t in Rome. It’s in exile, across the Tiber, from Babylon. (Hence, “crossing the Tiber” is a deeply ironic expression, since the person who “crosses the Tiber” from the Catholic Church would be entering Babylon.)


32 posted on 07/22/2010 3:02:02 PM PDT by dangus
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To: the_conscience
Pass the popcorn.

It looks as though this ... unique ... "Caucus" designation might not hold water.

33 posted on 07/22/2010 4:04:50 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: the_conscience
To: netmilsmom; Religion Moderator
I was under the impression that an article that is openly critical of those outside the Caucus does not qualify for Caucus status, so I did not use it for this particular thread.

RM, clarification?

25 posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 1:13:01 PM by Dr. Brian Kopp
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

You are correct. On the basis of the title alone, the article does not qualify for a caucus label.

26 posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 1:29:52 PM by Religion Moderator
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34 posted on 07/22/2010 4:10:35 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Religion Moderator

Dear RM,

Like a horde of Turks bent on sacking Byzantine the Romanist have run roughshod over our caucus.

We non-Romanists realize that Romanists believe they are above the rule of law. Here’s an opportunity for our Romanist FRiends to learn a true American value.

Please delete posts: 2,14,15,17,20,25,26,28,29,31,32, and 33.

Thank you.


35 posted on 07/22/2010 4:17:43 PM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: wideawake; Religion Moderator

Some of the precepts listed are also precepts of the Catholic Church — all 22 rites. This needs to be an open thread.


36 posted on 07/22/2010 4:19:54 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: wagglebee; Religion Moderator

**This statement clearly refers to the pope, so the caucus designation needs to come off.**

I agree. At the least is could be ecumenical, but it is wrought with errors begging to be corrected.


37 posted on 07/22/2010 4:22:56 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

**It looks as though this ... unique ... “Caucus” designation might not hold water. **

LOL!


38 posted on 07/22/2010 4:25:02 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

I don’t see what it should even be ecumenical. The Orthodox totally REJECTED this confession at the Synod of Jerusalem in 1672.

This makes as much sense as having a “Nestorian/Catholic” Caucus.


39 posted on 07/22/2010 4:28:48 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
www.ci.grapevine.tx.us/Portals/0/Public%20Works/Water_Wastewater/pouring_water_c.jpg
 
Drum Sieve Glossary Term
 
Water through a seive

40 posted on 07/22/2010 4:30:42 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

So why is the caucus designation still on?


41 posted on 07/22/2010 4:32:35 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: wagglebee

Nestorian Catholic......LOL! NOT!


42 posted on 07/22/2010 4:33:37 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: wagglebee; Salvation

I agree, and isn’t this thread an illustration of something that does not deserve elevation to caucus status?


43 posted on 07/22/2010 4:39:43 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Salvation

It makes as much sense as believing the Orthodox are somehow in agreement with sola scriptura.

See my further thoughts here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2554678/posts?page=1524#1524

Frankly, I find the entire premise of this thread deeply insulting to the Orthodox.


44 posted on 07/22/2010 4:41:36 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; Religion Moderator

*8Frankly, I find the entire premise of this thread deeply insulting to the Orthodox.**

Absolutely — I will not post to this thread again — unless the caucus is taken off.


45 posted on 07/22/2010 4:47:53 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: trisham; wagglebee; Salvation; Religion Moderator; the_conscience
I think the fact that no posts have been deleted from this thread is a voluminous if silent verification of the Religion Moderator's decision in this regard.

On the other hand, to avoid further confusion or inappropriate merriment, the Caucus designation in the title should probably be deleted.

To the OP, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing with you.

Yeah...that's it.

46 posted on 07/22/2010 4:48:32 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Maybe. Maybe not. :) It can’t be easy to moderate the Religion forum.


47 posted on 07/22/2010 4:51:56 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: the_conscience
Please delete posts: 2,14,15,17,20,25,26,28,29,31,32, and 33.

Thank you.

What's that noise?

48 posted on 07/22/2010 4:52:01 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: the_conscience; Religion Moderator
We non-Romanists realize that Romanists believe they are above the rule of law. Here’s an opportunity for our Romanist FRiends to learn a true American value.

Please delete posts: 2,14,15,17,20,25,26,28,29,31,32, and 33.

This statement refers to the papacy, so that opens it to debate:

there are on earth particular visible Churches, every one of them has one chief, who is not properly to be called [head] of that particular Church, but improperly, because he is the principal member of it.

Besides, this confession was rejected by the Orthodox over 400 years ago, the Orthodox have not supported this caucus and they don't believe in the five solas.

49 posted on 07/22/2010 4:55:54 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Salvation
Absolutely — I will not post to this thread again — unless the caucus is taken off.

Come on in, the water is fine...

The Confession of Cyril Lucaris
The Voice ^ | 1692 | Cyril Lucaris

Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 2:01:11 PM by the_conscience


50 posted on 07/22/2010 5:09:56 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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