Evangelical Scholar Troubled by Theological Ambiguity at Beck Rally (Many Christians Seem Confused)

Christian Post ^ | 09/02/2010 | Nathan Black

[SeekAndFind]

In the days following Glenn Beck's highly publicized rally in Washington, D.C., conservative Christians have come out expressing their concern not over the increasingly popular broadcaster, but over the apparent confusion among Christ followers.

"There is something very strange going on here. I don't understand the disconnect on the part of Christians," said Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr., president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky.

Americans from across the country converged on the National Mall on Saturday for the "Restoring Honor" rally led by Fox News commentator Beck. Reports indicate that the event drew anywhere from 87,000 to 500,000 people. Beck, a Mormon, was joined by a diverse group of religious leaders – including evangelical Christians – as he called on America to turn back to God.

Mohler, one of the nation’s pre-eminent evangelical theologians, found that Beck's rally cries were resonating with many Christians.

"What concerned me about that event on the mall was not so much Glenn Beck and the politicians in the program; it was the picture of those religious leaders standing together," he said Tuesday on The Janet Mefferd Show.

During Saturday’s three-hour event, over 200 religious leaders stood behind Beck, linking arms at certain points. Dr. Richard Land, a well-known Southern Baptist, and Bishop Harry Jackson of Hope Christian Church in Maryland were among the conservative Christians standing there.

While Land does not agree with Beck's theology, he told National Public Radio that the event was about a deep concern of Americans that the country has taken "a fundamentally wrong turn and is headed in the wrong direction."

Jim Garlow, pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego, Calif., who was also at the event, said the rally was about extolling virtue and honoring God.

And the event was evangelical in tone, he said in a commentary on CNN.

"Despite the pre-rally discussions of Beck’s Mormonism, the rally’s litany of evangelical speakers gave it the Jesus-centeredness of a Billy Graham Crusade. All theological references were clearly evangelical and biblically based," Garlow wrote.

After observing the rally, Mohler came away with a different take and a big concern.

"The bottom line is ... we've been used and we've allowed ourselves to be used at times by politicians and others who co-opted God talk," he said Tuesday on The Janet Mefferd Show.

"We (conservative Christians in America) … have just assumed that because they were using our language, they were talking about the same Gospel or talking about the same understanding of God or talking about the same theological structure and that's just not true," he stressed.

Mohler doesn't disagree on uniting with others on common concerns and moral convictions.

But he underscored the need to "distinguish that from standing together in the faith."

"One of the healthiest things that can happen among conservative Christians is the ability to recognize, to discern the difference between civil religion and authentic Christianity," he explained.

The conservative theologian said he and many other believers agree with Beck on many of his political views. He also expressed appreciation for how Beck identifies "many really horrible and very dangerous liberal ideas."

But "[j]ust to debunk liberal ideas does not give you then the authority to be taken at your word ... to be speaking truth when then you talk about the Gospel," he cautioned.

"We just have to be mature Christians [and say] 'let's look at the Scripture. Let's look at what is being said here. We have a problem."

Continuing, Mohler outlined the fact that Mormons hold to a very different understanding of God than that of Christian theism.

"We're talking about very different deities here," he said. "And I think many Christians just have no idea as they were watching that event."

"How many American Christians who are watching that (rally) and resonating with the call for spiritual revival know that the man who is up there speaking, using words about Gospel and God and all the rest, believes that there was a male and a female deity, that the Godhead is a reproductive pair, that eventually we will be divine ourselves if indeed we follow the path of righteousness?" Mohler added.

Since January, Beck has been working on the themes of faith, hope and charity. He said his aim is to restore history, honor, and "our faith" in the country.

The popular commentator has discussed the Gospel of Jesus Christ repeatedly on his television program, even using evangelical language such as atonement through the shed blood of Christ.

But Mohler commented, "That's bizarre language for a Mormon to be using in this light and to have evangelical Christians affirm that he's talking about the same Gospel we are ... it's the same language but it's not the same Gospel."

What both Mohler and Mefferd believe is happening is spiritual rallying on vague terms.

"When we see some of the talk that has come out of the rally and some of the people associated with the rally, all about God, God, God, I just have really strongly felt that it needs to be a very precise definition when we bring God into the discussion on anything," radio host Mefferd stated.

Mohler described the scenario as having all the cards on the table but turned over so that the faces are not seen.

"You're having the language, but you're not having the definitions here," he noted.

"It really is not so much a concern politically, it's a concern theologically. If we are Christians, we have to understand the name of God is not just some kind of generic noun we can throw around."

While Mohler recognized that some Christians would be irritated listening to his take on Beck and the rally, the theologian hopes they'll be irritated enough to go and look at Scripture.

Amid the theological ambiguity and confusion, Mohler reminded Christians that a revival or spiritual renewal cannot happen without a heart that has known salvation through Jesus Christ.

"You can't have spiritual renewal where biblically speaking there's spiritual deadness," he said. "The reality is we can't biblically believe that they really know the one true and living God unless they know Him through Jesus Christ, our Lord."

[ducttape45]

I'm going to have to re-listen to his Sep 1st show because I have it on audio. I'm glad you're doing your own research and not just going by what I said or Brannon Howse said.

As I said in another post, let's not forget each other and others who are waking up to the truth of Glenn Beck's deceitful message.

God bless you.

[greyfoxx39]

That said, I find some folks' rabid, obsessive opposition to Mormonism to be just as silly, and maybe just a bit devil-inspired.

I find that someone who claims "obsession" by others spends a lot of time "obsessing" about what others think and say about mormonism while branding others "devil-inspired".

Christianity itself was branded "devil-inspired" for over a hundred years by mormons and mormon leaders, yet today we see mormons attempting to usurp the very name of Christianity and substitute the demon-inspired rantings of Joseph Smith. They won't succeed.

[ejonesie22]

Being called devil inspired for fighting against false religion's of any type which are creations of the Evil One is just old Beelzebub himself calling foul.

[greyfoxx39]

Being called devil inspired for fighting against false religion's of any type which are creations of the Evil One is just old Beelzebub himself calling foul.

It's the same old attack...when your arguments don't hold water, call names.

[ejonesie22]

When its all you got.

[RnMomof7]

From the article..this says it all

I believe that Glenn Beck's desire, in some measure, was to create a "King Benjamin moment." The Book of Mormon relates a landmark gathering of some of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas to hear the words of one King Benjamin. Benjamin declared principles of piety, humility, service, and faith to his people. He preached to them repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, who would be born in centuries to come, relative to his time. The result was a turning back to God by his audience that brought the Holy Spirit upon them. It was a moment of national renewal and personal recommitment to do good in God's name. This was Beck's template for the event that took place today.

So much for the political rally ~!

[greyfoxx39]

This was Beck's template for the event that took place today.

Or, perhaps Glenn hopes to don the mantle described here by Joseph Smith:

Every man who has a calling to minister to the inhabitants of the world was ordained to that very purpose in the Grand Council of heaven before this world was. [1] I suppose that I was ordained to this very office in that Grand Council. It is the testimony that I want that I am God's servant, and this people His people. The ancient prophets declared that in the last days the God of heaven should set up a kingdom which should never be destroyed, [2] nor left to other people; and the very time that was calculated on, this people were struggling to bring it out... I calculate to be one of the instruments of setting up the kingdom of Daniel by the word of the Lord, and I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.

(History of the Church 6:364-5)

[Tennessee Nana]

Every man who has a calling
__________________________________________

That reminds me of another odd thing he said...

About our military “they do it because its their calling...”

Oh really ???

Their bishop sent them ??? Every one ???

[Colofornian]

I am not confused. This is an Anti Mormon alert.

Sandy, please stop being anti those who are pro-Mormons-can-know-they-are-saved-NOW. (We really do want Mormons to know they can be saved NOW, ya know)

[Colofornian]

I'm challenging your assumptions by asking you a different question: do you think God cares which church does the baptizing?

God cares in whose "NAME" (make a mental note that this is a singular word describing God).

Mormons believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three entirely separate gods.

When Jesus gave the commission to baptize (Matt. 28:18-19), He said: 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit...

Mormons stress the division within the Trinity by insisting that their identities are more separated than united. Christians emphasis God's Unity; and this Unity is demonstrated by the singular NAME of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

[greyfoxx39]

misrepresentation and religious envy by sectarian Christianity

That's Greg for you...the guy who bragged that he would bring FR to its knees...religious envy? Put the 'shrooms away Greg...I know they aren't mentioned in the Word of Wisdom, but you've maxed out on them.

[Colofornian]

I think what you are referring to is the quote from President Gordon B. Hinckley where he said “The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak”. (LDS Church News, Saturday, 20 June 1998) The traditional Christ is certainly different from the Biblical Christ. He was referring to the Christ defined in non-biblical creeds that have become the tradition in much of Christianity. Latter-day Saints believe firmly in the Jesus Christ of the New Testament.

Norm...What then will you try to do with this Ensign mag quote?

“It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons.” – LDS publication, Ensign Magazine, May 1977, p. 26

Please follow my logic here:
You said Lds believe in the Jesus Christ of the New Testament
Ensign magazine, the official mag of the Mormon church, says their Jesus Christ that is worshipped is distinct from msny of the Christian churches. [And please know that Ensign didn't turn around and add that many other Christian churches besides these worship the same Jesus as Mormons]

Therefore...
...if indeed the Jesus that Mormons believe and worship in is both the same as the biblical Jesus and is a different Jesus than the one worshipped by many Christian churches...
...then Ensign magazine -- and you have just "teamed up" 33 years apart to...
...accuse these "many...Christian churches of worshipping a Christ that is not the biblical Jesus.

Normandy, you and your hierarchy can't have it both ways: You can't have a distinctly worshipped Jesus and a biblical One without getting into the accusation business re: "many...Christian churches."

My take?
The Mormon official publication says they worship a different Christ...
The Mormon "prophet" (Hinckley) said they speak about, believe and acknowledge a different Christ [two different quotes on that from Hinckley]...

Christians say they worship, speak of and belief another Jesus...

So. We are all on the same page...
...so why are you and the Beck defenders so out of harmony with actually something we agree upon with official Mormondom???

[Colofornian]

The thief on the cross almost certainly did not understand doctrine.

Oh really?

The word "doctrine" simply means teaching.

Let's see what this thief knew both about Christ and any other Christian teachings:

39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"
40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."
42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." (Luke 23:39-42)

So what had this thief learned already?
* He knew Jesus was perfect -- or at least perfect in His public life (v. 41). (How many contemporaries with access to Bibles still don't recognize that?)
* He feared God (v. 40), and knew that was proper. (How many contemporaries lack a fear of God?)
* He knew the one of the commandments enough to know he was guilty and was received due punishment. (v.41) (How many contemporaries play down steading as if it was nothing -- and here he said it was worth the death penalty!)
* He knew enough "teaching" about Jesus that He was both trustworthy (somebody of ultimate authority He could appeal to about the most important thing in life -- God's Kingdom) -- v. 42...
* ...and, as such, He knew Jesus was the Living Way into a true Kingdom entrance [How many even on these FReeper threads have chastised us in the past week for claiming Jesus is the Only Way to heaven?]

I'd say this guy knew a fair enough. In fact, even the other thief heard of Jesus' "savior" status!!!

Little children do not understand doctrine, and yet Jesus says we should be like them (in the sense of trusting Him) if we want to enter the Kingdom of God. (Matt. 18)

They don't? You're telling me that little children don't understand some basic doctrines about, say, prayer?
Or what it is to trust?

I think you simply forgot to put an adjective by "doctrine" -- like "in-depth."

[Colofornian]

Greg in his “Glenn Beck and the ‘Restoring Honor’ rally” article in the Examiner on August 28th, 2010 11:00 pm siad some amazing things...1. No matter what people tell you about Glenn Beck, he’s the real thing. He isn’t a put-on. He is a believer in God and in the American religion. Nana: AMERICAN RELIGION ??? what American religion ??? Mormonism ?? What ?? Which ???

Nana, well, I know, I think Greg West & I might actually agree on something here. Beck has temporarily downplayed all the other Mormon gods and he's focusing on ARG -- the 'American Religion God'...

This is the Mormo-Bahai god (ya know, the religion that does those commercials..."one people, one faith, one god...please" or something to that effect. Beck is making the same appeal.

He called on them to practice charity and to tithe to their churches...9. He called on them to open their Bibles and to go back to their own churches.

A lot of Mormons don't mind paying through the nose to let their church continually accuse Christians of being apostates. But, they, themselves get squirmish actually uttering the phrase, "You...Christian...you're an apostate." (Well, at least publicly)

What would be interesting is to do a poll among 5,000 Mormons. Show them dozens of Mormon leader quotes calling Christians "apostates" -- and show them 1 Nephi 14:9-10 which says the only alternative church to the Mormon "church of the Lamb" is Satan's church. THEN ask them this point-blank question:
What do you think about out-front Mormons tithing to so-called "apostate" churches supposed headed by Satan? And: What do you think about Mormon missionaries and Mormons saying to Christians, "Go back to your own churches"???

Looks like Mormons have two choices:
Choice A: Scrap some of their doctrine, and call all those who taught it at one time "false teachers" -- or,
Choice B: ...stick with the Mormon doctrine and label Beck a promoter of apostate-based satanic churches!

Sounds to me like if Beck has told people they could "go back to their churches," that the Mormon church should just redirect their missionaries to only visit the 25%+ Americans which have no home church.

[Cvengr]

That’s scary.

[Elsie]

 

My eyes are opened now.

 

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FREE KITTENS

A pretty little girl named Suzy was standing on the sidewalk in front of her home in Salt Lake City. Next to her was a basket containing a number of tiny creatures; in her hand was a sign announcing FREE KITTENS.

Suddenly a line of big black cars pulled up beside her. Out of the lead car stepped a tall, grinning man.

"Hi there little girl, I'm President Thomas Monson. What do you have in the basket?" he asked.

"Kittens," little Suzy said.

"How old are they?" asked Monson.

Suzy replied, "They're so young, their eyes aren't even open yet."

"And what kind of kittens are they?"

"Mormons," answered Suzy with a smile.

Thompson was delighted. As soon as he returned to his car, he called his PR chief and told him about the little girl and the kittens.

Recognizing the perfect photo op, the two men agreed that the president should return the next day; and in front of the assembled media, have the girl talk about her discerning kittens.

So the next day, Suzy was again standing on the sidewalk with her basket of "FREE KITTENS," when another motorcade pulled up, this time followed by vans from Deseret News, The Ensign magazine and KSL.

Cameras and audio equipment were quickly set up, then Thompson got out of his limo and walked over to little Suzy.

"Hello, again," he said, "I'd love it if you would tell all my friends out there what kind of kittens you're giving away."

"Yes sir," Suzy said. "They're Christians."

Taken by surprise, the Living Prophet® stammered, "But... but... yesterday, you told me they were MORMONS."

Little Suzy smiled and said, "I know. But today, they have their eyes open"

[Elsie]

Or, perhaps Glenn hopes to don the mantle described here by Joseph Smith:

JSmanaged to destroy a PRINTING PRESS - the INTERNET of it's day!

The MORMONs realize that they MUST, somehow, shut down we Flying Inmen who are displaying their warts daily!

Watch their tactics in the days to come!!!

[Elsie]

That's Greg for you...the guy who bragged that he would bring FR to its knees

Like I just said...

[r9etb]

Oh really? The word "doctrine" simply means teaching. Let's see what this thief knew both about Christ and any other Christian teachings:

Unfortunately for your argument, Christian doctrine simplydid not exist yet. Yes, the thief knew the real score. "Doctrine" didn't exist until long after the thief had joined Jesus in heaven.

The lesson: churches can be pretty arrogant, sometimes -- assuming that salvation only comes through the teaching of the church.

[r9etb]

I find that someone who claims "obsession" by others spends a lot of time "obsessing" about what others think and say about mormonism while branding others "devil-inspired".

Every time you guys post, it's all about Mormons with you. You are obsessed, and your behavior is just plain ugly. I make no apologies for my comment.