Posted on 09/18/2010 7:13:15 PM PDT by lightman
Edited on 09/18/2010 7:26:53 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
Jer 44:25 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus
The ancient “Queen of heaven” worshiping cult and her harlots are lost false gospels not Bible based Christianity. They are fusions of pagan religions mixed with parts of the Bible to lure the naive. This goes for all other heretical groups that have grown themselves since the time of Christ to seduce souls away from the Bible unto one of many false gospels and false christs that has been preached in the last 2000 years. Even during the time of the apostles these groups had already begun and were going around using the name of Jesus to lure and deceive people away from the biblical based gospel unto their false fusion gospels.
All were warned prior to these groups multiplying. People rarely read the Bible today, and in most of Europe for centuries people were forbidden by the queen of heaven cult to be able to even read it themselves as they were not deemed worthy. But now anyone can read it for themselves to find out the truth from the only source, the Bible itself, and we have no excuse anymore to be deceived by any of these heretical organizations whatever name they may go by, or how deeply ingrained or deceitful their luring propaganda may be.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
You wrote:
“they decided to follow the Bible’s command to flee Babylon rather than accept the sacrament of molesting little boys.”
There is no such sacrament nor could there ever be such. The fact that you have to stoop to that level indicates you already lost this argument and that you probably know it.
You wrote:
“No, you are a member of a church founded by some guys who were part of a Church founded by God.”
Nope. Christ is God. Christ founded the Catholic Church. He never founded any Protestant sect in Germany or England or America or anywhere else. Even if someone doubts that Christ founded the Catholic Church, it is absolutely undeniable that He founded a Church in the 1st century and not in the 16th. Thus, the Protestant claims to legitimacy in origins are no better than that of the Mormons.
Ha ha. Your descent into historonics shows how much the truth hurts. Flee babylon.
You wrote:
“Well, I have my doubts about that. How can you seriously look at the writings of Luther and Calvin and characterize them as ‘unfettered rebellion’ unless, of course, you are operating with an over ridining bias?”
No. They espoused doctrines no one espoused before. Protestants themselves sometimes hint at this such as when Alister McGrath called one of Luther’s teachings a “novelty”. Luther and Calvin were clever innovators who twisted scripture.
You wrote:
“Ha ha. Your descent into historonics shows how much the truth hurts. Flee babylon.”
There’s no histrionics on my part at all. Let’s use your own logic and words. If you are saying the “truth hurts” then that must be a reference to the bizarre claim you made about a sacrament of child molesting. Now, even though the claim is on the face of it ridiculous I will now ask you to prove it. Please post evidence from any Catholic approved catechism that says that there is a sacramemt of child molestation. When you fail to do so - and you will fail - we will all know something about you and mendacity.
Also, if you go to your sect today to worship, remember what the Bible says about bearing false witness.
Actually, it does. The great corruption of the Catholic church from its inception as a government body in the time of Constantine, through the middle ages led to rebellion against the Church, not against G-d. With work, the Church eventually reformed, and now provides one (of many) paths to G-d and virtue. The church does its best work when it has competitors who are virtuous and holy, and thus competition is for the most virtuous. By contrast, if rebellion was not permitted, well, G-d gave us minds to permit us to question.
“I doubt, therefore I think” as Descartes said.
Vlad, I am sure there are plenty of threads where you can engage in apologetics regarding protestantism. But instead, ya come into here and basically say:
LESBIANISM = PROTESTANTISM
did ya convince a lot of people?
I could attend church with an homosexual sinner, just as I can with other sinners. I could not return to church after being told that sin was virtue.
You wrote:
“Actually, it does. The great corruption of the Catholic church from its inception as a government body in the time of Constantine, through the middle ages led to rebellion against the Church, not against G-d.”
You are presenting anti-Catholic myths as if they were historical realities. The Catholic Church was never a “government body” at the time of Constantine for instance. Constantine, in fact, persecuted the Church after originally favoring it. In any case, he did not control it nor was it part of the government. Like others who peddle the nonsense you’re posting you probably also believe that Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. Nope. That happened more than 40 years after Constantine died. Suddenly your myths vanish.
“With work, the Church eventually reformed, and now provides one (of many) paths to G-d and virtue.”
Christ says there is but one path. And there is but one Church.
“The church does its best work when it has competitors who are virtuous and holy, and thus competition is for the most virtuous. By contrast, if rebellion was not permitted, well, G-d gave us minds to permit us to question.”
Holiness is not about competition. It is about obedience to God and Church and cooperation with God’s grace. You are consumerizing Christianity.
““I doubt, therefore I think” as Descartes said.”
Descartes is not my God. If he is yours, then you have chosen poorly.
You wrote:
“Vlad, I am sure there are plenty of threads where you can engage in apologetics regarding protestantism. But instead, ya come into here and basically say:
LESBIANISM = PROTESTANTISM”
No, actually I said nothing even remotely like that.
“did ya convince a lot of people?”
Yes, actually I do.
To the contrary, it was a scholarly and godly response to a twisted church and does not rate the broad perjorative 'unfettered'.
The Church says there is one path, the Church. That self serving twaddle almost need not be refuted.
Christ said “Noone comes to the Father but through Me” But Protestants also worship G-d, and count on Christ for the redemption of sin, so they do come to the Father through Christ.
When priests sin, that properly reflects on the Church who trains and employs them. Judge a tree by its fruit. Get the beam out of your own eye before you try to remove the mote from anothers.
And when you go to your don't forget to guard your children.
You wrote:
“To the contrary, it was a scholarly and godly response to a twisted church and does not rate the broad perjorative ‘unfettered’.”
To the contrary, praising theft and heresy as scholarly and godly is the sign of twisted sectarian views and does not rate anything but the accurate descriptor “Protestantism”.
Your implication was that Protestants reap what they sow, in this case because of rebellion.
Yet, Catholics have not avoided that same basic harvest.
You wrote:
“The Church says there is one path, the Church.”
Actually the Church says the one path is Christ - and Christ sent the Church.
This is pointed out in different ways in the CCC, even in reference to prayer:
CCC 2664 There is no other way of Christian prayer than Christ. Whether our prayer is communal or personal, vocal or interior, it has access to the Father only if we pray “in the name” of Jesus. The sacred humanity of Jesus is therefore the way by which the Holy Spirit teaches us to pray to God our Father.
You might want to read this: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c2a2.htm#I
“That self serving twaddle almost need not be refuted.”
In other words, you can’t do it. The twaddle is yours and yours alone.
“When priests sin, that properly reflects on the Church who trains and employs them. Judge a tree by its fruit. Get the beam out of your own eye before you try to remove the mote from anothers.”
You judge a group by its founder and saints not just its sinners. I would much rather be judged by the fact that Christ is our founder while yours is...well, whoever it is. And quite frankly whatever abuses have existed in recent years in Catholic diocese have been found in Protestant sects again and again as well. I don’t judge Protestant sects by the fact that they have sinners. All groups have sinners. I do judge them by the fact that every last Protestant sect was founded by men, and none of them were founded by Christ.
You wrote:
“And when you go to your don’t forget to guard your children.”
I have no reason to worry about my children. at our parish we are not only protected from Protestantism, but also none of the members of the religious order that runs the parish have ever been accused of harming a child. Also, since we have up to 26 altar boys serving at every Sunday Mass - and our pews are filled with converts as well as cradle Catholics and their hundreds of children - it is unlikely abuse could take happen in any case. All of our priests - no matter what their imperfections - have been good and holy men. The converts among them have some especially interesting things to say about Protestantism too.
You wrote:
“Yet, Catholics have not avoided that same basic harvest.”
Oh, yes, we have. We have homosexuals hiding out in the priesthood. What we don’t have is the Church teaching it’s okay for them to be practicing homosexuals and to serve openly as such. In other words, if you look in our Catechism it clearly says homosexual acts are disordered. The ELCA cannot say that since they now OFFICIALLY welcome homosexual acts and relationships.
Oh, yes, we have avoided that harvest. We have sinners. We do not have sinful doctrine. There is a world of difference.
Funny how how that part was left out of Scripture. Why would Christ come and tear down the walls between humanity and God; and then insist that a bureaucratic, ritual driven church be founded?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.