Did Mary retain her virginal integrity while giving birth to Jesus?

Catholic Bridge ^ | David MacDonald

[Alex Murphy]

Overall, Catholics liked the movie "The Nativity" but had several problems with it. For one thing they changed Scripture during the closing of the movie. On the screen they flashed the Bible passage from Luke 1:46-54. But they left out the words "for me" from middle of the sentence "The Lord has done great things for me, and Holy is his name." I don't think they should have taken that out of the Word of God, without using any elypses to show they skipped it. Another issue with the movie is they showed Mary screaming and pushing in pain as she gave birth to Jesus.

The Early Church Fathers are almost unanimous in the assertion that the birth was painless and had no loss of Mary's virginal integrity during the birth. In other words, her Hymen didn't break. St. Augustine said "Jesus passed through the womb of Mary as a ray of sun passes through glass." Pope Martin in 649 AD defined the doctrine that Mary:

• Conceived without seed, of the Holy Ghost
• Generated without injury (to her virginity)
• And her virginity continued unimpaired after the birth

This was confirmed by Pope Paul IV and many others before and after. If Jesus emerged from a sealed tomb, and passed through closed doors, surely he could pass through Mary's womb without breaking her hymen and causing her pain. If pain is the punishment of original sin and birth pangs the first punishment at the fall (Gen 3) for Eve's disobedience. It follows that Mary as the new Eve, who was obedient to God (Lk 1:38), would not have suffered giving birth to the "new Adam". If Eve came out of Adam's rib with no pain while he slept, it follows that Jesus (the new Adam) came out of Mary (the new Eve) without pain.

[Alex Murphy]

The Early Church Fathers are almost unanimous in the assertion that the birth was painless and had no loss of Mary's virginal integrity during the birth. In other words, her Hymen didn't break. St. Augustine said "Jesus passed through the womb of Mary as a ray of sun passes through glass"....This was confirmed by Pope Paul IV and many others before and after. If Jesus emerged from a sealed tomb, and passed through closed doors, surely he could pass through Mary's womb without breaking her hymen and causing her pain.

Excerpted from the article:
Did Mary Have a Bunch of Kids? Mary's perpetual virginity before, during and after Jesus' birth

See also the much longer and heavily footnoted study:
THE VIRGINITY OF OUR LADY IN PARTU: The Painless, Miraculous Birth of Our Lord Jesus Christ

[christianhomeschoolmommaof3]

Forgetting everything else in the article, having her hymen rupture doesn’t make her a non virgin. Sexual intercourse would make her a non virgin. So that particular point is moot.

[stuartcr]

What kind of a confirmation is it, that has the phrase...’IF xxxxx happened, then yyyyy is possible’?

[television is just wrong]

In God and in Faith, everything is possible.

[DannyTN]

I’m with you. I think it’s ridiculous to imagine that Jesus didn’t have a real normal birth.

[DesertRhino]

This is edging rather high on the creepy question scale. And i can’t really see how it matters at all to the truth of Christian theology. Does it say anywhere in the Bible that it was a painless birth?

[SnakeDoctor]

I don’t understand why explicit information about the post-birth status of Mary’s innards is important to Christianity.

SnakeDoc

[DesertRhino]

“Sexual intercourse would make her a non virgin. So that particular point is moot”

Well put.

[agere_contra]

When used about the perceived scope of miracles, it seems an apt logical construct.

For instance: “if Jesus rose from the dead, then it is certainly possible that He healed the man born blind”

Also you could use it of a person’s perceived moral limits.

For instance: “if Hillary had Vince Foster killed, then it is possible she could order you kacked as well”.

[nysuperdoodle]

I’m curious about James and Judas (the Judas mentioned in Acts) - weren’t they Jesus’ half-brothers? My understanding is that Jesus was sired by God through Mary, and that James and Judas were sired by Joseph through her...how does that reconcile with perpetual virginity?

[Pyro7480]

[Sloth]

Gross. I think a decent amount of respect for Mary - or pretty much anybody - precludes an unhealthy interest in her vagina.

[DesertRhino]

“Pope Martin in 649 AD defined the doctrine that Mary”

I understand that Catholics believe in a semi-divine nature for Mary, and im not insulting that belief. But i will freely question the ability of a man who lived 650 years later to speak authoritatively on the topic.

If i tried to discuss the effects of childbirth on a woman from the year 1350, people would think i was deranged.

And the method of the birth of Christ in no way impacts his message and gift of redemption.

[Pyro7480]

I understand that Catholics believe in a semi-divine nature for Mary, and im not insulting that belief.

Nope. She's human, but without sin. This whole can of worms sets up blasphemous attacks on Catholic beliefs, but also those of the Eastern Orthodox, who hold the same belief.

[Walts Ice Pick]

I'm not sure what the answer to the question is, either. And, I'm not looking forward to watching Glenn Beck try to figure it out on his chalkboard.

I guess I'm just not sure, yet.

Good question, though.

[LiteKeeper]

More speculation on the part of the Roman Catholic Church. Their quest for elevation of Mary to some level above normal human being is never ending.

[christianhomeschoolmommaof3]

I didn’t say that it wasn’t possible for her to have a painless birth. I said that a ruptured hymen doesn’t mean you aren’t a virgin.

[Pyro7480]

That last point of mine was supposed to have this image:

[Pecos]

Thank you. I think tha pretty much sums things up for us non-Catholics.