Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only When you can finally admit that we have to have works and faith together to be saved, we can continue the conversation.
But the continued misdirection is tiresome...
Salvation comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. As someone reads the Truth in scriptures they can 'hear God's Spirit calling them to accept His Grace and be Born Again. When they accept, He is faithful and just to follow through with His promises, even if He has to wait you out for an entire lifetime, trying to turn you away from soemthing displeasing to His presence and into godliness He alone can Author.
Thanks for the opportunity to open the Scriptures and rightly divide them for you and for fellow readers. What I offer to you is generated through the agreement of scriptures, not by special interpretation as in cunningly devised fables such as Joseph Smith and co have offered to you/been teaching you for who knows how long.
When Stourme thinks he can have real godliness without the God of that nature within his human spirit to Author that Nature which is His nature, then Stourme is ‘denying the power thereof’.
***
is this not an accusation and motive, mind reading...
labeling and assigning things to LDS even if don’t fit!
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only
When you can finally admit that we have to have works and faith together to be saved, we can continue the conversation.
But the continued misdirection is tiresome...
BTW, Stourme, there is a way to understand this passage in James as not contradictory to the rest of the scriptures. Would you like to read it? ... Here goes:
Recall the story of Abraham, told by God to take Isaac up on that mountain and sacrifice him on the altar as a burnt offering. Abraham, according to Paul's teaching, was justified by faith, by faithing, doing what he was told to do. And lest you poo poo Paul, remember, he was like a PhD in the rabbinical school of Gamaliel! Paul, or we should say Saul, was very knowledgebale in the scriptures, all the scriptures. When he tells you what was going on with Abraham, you ought to listen to his teaching because he had more than the book knowledge, Paul was guided by God's Holy Spirit within his human spirit, thus directing his soul, his mind, will, and emotions.
Now Abraham's actions, his deed of doing what he was commanded was the exercising of faith in this wise: Abraham had been Promised that through Isaac would his seed be called, that God would multiply Abraham's descendants to more than the visible stars in the clear night sky! so when God told Abraham to go sacrifice Isaac, Abraham exercised his faith that somehow unknown to Abraham God would fulfill His promise and if he had to even raise Isaac from the dead to fulfill the Promises!
Abraham showed with a simple act that he had this kind of faith when he told the two servants along for the trip that 'they' would return to them after the ritual was completed. As int he story of the little boy I offered up thread, faith came first, or simultaneous with doing as he was told. It was Abraham's faith which was counted for him righteousness, according to what Paul taught/what we find in Hebrews chapter eleven.
Now, let's compare that exercising of faith to that of David, who was also justified by faith. When Goliath was threatening the Israelites and they needed someone to fight that giant/monster, David stepped forward fully believing that God would deliver Goliath into David's hand that day. david went down to the rock bed and chose a few stones, and armed with his slingshot, he went out into the field of battle with a giant, heavily armed and armored against attack. David didn't come with heavy armor and sword and shield, just a slingshot, trusting/faithing that God would dleiver Goliath into his hands that day.
David trusting/faithing in God to fulfill His promises to Isarel was what justified David as he acted out his faith.
And here's a final simpel example of how faith and works work: when I enter the dining room to enjoy Thanksgiving meal, I have a chair which I go to and plop my rear upon. I have faith that the chair will do the taks it is designed to do, so I exercise my faith in chairism and sit down without even giving the act much thought!
Now for a thoroughly mixed metaphors which will be surprisingly informative: A Christian allows God's indwelling Spirit to do the 'chairism' to him, faithing (yes, its a verb) that Godliness will be God's doing not my striving, not having a form of chairism but denying the power thereof by not sitting down peacefully to a repast.
Meant to ping you two, so kerping!
Meant to ping you folks, also.
Now, will you admit that with out feeding the hungry and clothing the naked you cannot be saved?
________________________________________________
Kid, how much of that did the thief on the cross do ???
Now, will you admit that with out feeding the hungry and clothing the naked you cannot be saved?
________________________________________________
Kid, how much of that did Lazarus the beggar do ???
What James is saying in 2:14 is that if it is a faith without works (works = a lifestyle of obedience to God), it is a DEAD faith—that is, it is not the true faith in Jesus Christ—it is faith in something or someone else, thus DEAD.
When i first started going to church back in the early 70s i would pass up people along the road that maybe needed help,
(i sure could not be late for church, what an idiot )
This was due to the fact that i was putting my faith in the church instead of God and doing what God tells us to do, my fault even though this was encouraged by the church.
Before i started going to church i was always stopping to help people.
I was also referring to the fact that people will say that James and Paul had a disagreement on the subject, no they did not have any disagreement on it, they were talking about it from two different angles.
Paul was saying that people who were going around being workers might be just doing it for to be seen of men, so he says that works with out faith is nothing, even many unbelievers can and do the same thing, socialism for instance. works is giving of yourself, not giving of some one else.
On the other hand James was saying that some one saying they have faith does not make it so, its just words, if some one has faith it will show some where in their works, it won,t be in big red letters but it will be there.
Faith and works are one where our salvation is concerned, helping some one who needs help with out fanfare is a sign of faith and most people do not even call that works.
In fact the real works of faith is rarely seen in the news because it was not done to be seen of men.
The most important commandment.
The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” (NIV, Mark 12:28-31
Do a search of RESTORNU in FR and read her stuff.
Then you'll get the idea...
I hope that your explanation here convinces MORMONs of this fact.
Posted that way just for Saundra; as she feels it is not SAFE for her to post the AoF any more.
Anything ELSE is HERESY!
WELCOME! to MORMONism!
I hope they WAKE UP! by then!
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
What did He 'command'?
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
WOW!
When did THIS rule get written?
ONce again:
MORMONs have NO clue as to what the hell JS was jabbering about when HE claimed that PRESBYTERIANism was UNTRUE.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.