Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...
It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).
LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:
"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).
LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:
"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:
"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).
LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:
"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)
LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:
"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).
LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:
"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)
LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:
"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:
"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).
As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:
"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]
Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:
"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]
LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:
"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).
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What the Bible Says About God
1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.
"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12
"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6
"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25
The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.
2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.
"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4
"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9
"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17
"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5
"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142
The LDS god achieved holiness.
3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.
"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28
"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5
The LDS god had to learn everything.
4. ALL POWERFUL
"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6
"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20
The LDS god attained his power.
5. OMNIPRESENT
"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1
"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24
The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.
6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION
"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24
"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6
"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6
The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.
7. NO OTHER GODS
"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11
"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8
"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9
"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8
The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.
For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:
Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only When you can finally admit that we have to have works and faith together to be saved, we can continue the conversation.
But the continued misdirection is tiresome...
Salvation comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. As someone reads the Truth in scriptures they can 'hear God's Spirit calling them to accept His Grace and be Born Again. When they accept, He is faithful and just to follow through with His promises, even if He has to wait you out for an entire lifetime, trying to turn you away from soemthing displeasing to His presence and into godliness He alone can Author.
Thanks for the opportunity to open the Scriptures and rightly divide them for you and for fellow readers. What I offer to you is generated through the agreement of scriptures, not by special interpretation as in cunningly devised fables such as Joseph Smith and co have offered to you/been teaching you for who knows how long.
When Stourme thinks he can have real godliness without the God of that nature within his human spirit to Author that Nature which is His nature, then Stourme is ‘denying the power thereof’.
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is this not an accusation and motive, mind reading...
labeling and assigning things to LDS even if don’t fit!
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only
When you can finally admit that we have to have works and faith together to be saved, we can continue the conversation.
But the continued misdirection is tiresome...
BTW, Stourme, there is a way to understand this passage in James as not contradictory to the rest of the scriptures. Would you like to read it? ... Here goes:
Recall the story of Abraham, told by God to take Isaac up on that mountain and sacrifice him on the altar as a burnt offering. Abraham, according to Paul's teaching, was justified by faith, by faithing, doing what he was told to do. And lest you poo poo Paul, remember, he was like a PhD in the rabbinical school of Gamaliel! Paul, or we should say Saul, was very knowledgebale in the scriptures, all the scriptures. When he tells you what was going on with Abraham, you ought to listen to his teaching because he had more than the book knowledge, Paul was guided by God's Holy Spirit within his human spirit, thus directing his soul, his mind, will, and emotions.
Now Abraham's actions, his deed of doing what he was commanded was the exercising of faith in this wise: Abraham had been Promised that through Isaac would his seed be called, that God would multiply Abraham's descendants to more than the visible stars in the clear night sky! so when God told Abraham to go sacrifice Isaac, Abraham exercised his faith that somehow unknown to Abraham God would fulfill His promise and if he had to even raise Isaac from the dead to fulfill the Promises!
Abraham showed with a simple act that he had this kind of faith when he told the two servants along for the trip that 'they' would return to them after the ritual was completed. As int he story of the little boy I offered up thread, faith came first, or simultaneous with doing as he was told. It was Abraham's faith which was counted for him righteousness, according to what Paul taught/what we find in Hebrews chapter eleven.
Now, let's compare that exercising of faith to that of David, who was also justified by faith. When Goliath was threatening the Israelites and they needed someone to fight that giant/monster, David stepped forward fully believing that God would deliver Goliath into David's hand that day. david went down to the rock bed and chose a few stones, and armed with his slingshot, he went out into the field of battle with a giant, heavily armed and armored against attack. David didn't come with heavy armor and sword and shield, just a slingshot, trusting/faithing that God would dleiver Goliath into his hands that day.
David trusting/faithing in God to fulfill His promises to Isarel was what justified David as he acted out his faith.
And here's a final simpel example of how faith and works work: when I enter the dining room to enjoy Thanksgiving meal, I have a chair which I go to and plop my rear upon. I have faith that the chair will do the taks it is designed to do, so I exercise my faith in chairism and sit down without even giving the act much thought!
Now for a thoroughly mixed metaphors which will be surprisingly informative: A Christian allows God's indwelling Spirit to do the 'chairism' to him, faithing (yes, its a verb) that Godliness will be God's doing not my striving, not having a form of chairism but denying the power thereof by not sitting down peacefully to a repast.
Meant to ping you two, so kerping!
Meant to ping you folks, also.
Now, will you admit that with out feeding the hungry and clothing the naked you cannot be saved?
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Kid, how much of that did the thief on the cross do ???
Now, will you admit that with out feeding the hungry and clothing the naked you cannot be saved?
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Kid, how much of that did Lazarus the beggar do ???
What James is saying in 2:14 is that if it is a faith without works (works = a lifestyle of obedience to God), it is a DEAD faith—that is, it is not the true faith in Jesus Christ—it is faith in something or someone else, thus DEAD.
When i first started going to church back in the early 70s i would pass up people along the road that maybe needed help,
(i sure could not be late for church, what an idiot )
This was due to the fact that i was putting my faith in the church instead of God and doing what God tells us to do, my fault even though this was encouraged by the church.
Before i started going to church i was always stopping to help people.
I was also referring to the fact that people will say that James and Paul had a disagreement on the subject, no they did not have any disagreement on it, they were talking about it from two different angles.
Paul was saying that people who were going around being workers might be just doing it for to be seen of men, so he says that works with out faith is nothing, even many unbelievers can and do the same thing, socialism for instance. works is giving of yourself, not giving of some one else.
On the other hand James was saying that some one saying they have faith does not make it so, its just words, if some one has faith it will show some where in their works, it won,t be in big red letters but it will be there.
Faith and works are one where our salvation is concerned, helping some one who needs help with out fanfare is a sign of faith and most people do not even call that works.
In fact the real works of faith is rarely seen in the news because it was not done to be seen of men.
The most important commandment.
The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” (NIV, Mark 12:28-31
Do a search of RESTORNU in FR and read her stuff.
Then you'll get the idea...
I hope that your explanation here convinces MORMONs of this fact.
Posted that way just for Saundra; as she feels it is not SAFE for her to post the AoF any more.
Anything ELSE is HERESY!
WELCOME! to MORMONism!
I hope they WAKE UP! by then!
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
What did He 'command'?
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
WOW!
When did THIS rule get written?
ONce again:
MORMONs have NO clue as to what the hell JS was jabbering about when HE claimed that PRESBYTERIANism was UNTRUE.
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