LDS View of God Contradicts the Bible

Utah Lighthouse Ministry.org ^

[Colofornian]

LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...

It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).

LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:

"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).

LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:

"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).

LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:

"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).

LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:

"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)

LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:

"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).

LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:

"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)

LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:

"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).

LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:

"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).

As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:

"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]

Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:

"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son ­ embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]

LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:

"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).

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What the Bible Says About God

1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.

"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12

"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6

"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25

The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.

2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.

"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4

"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9

"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17

"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5

"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142

The LDS god achieved holiness.

3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.

"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28

"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5

The LDS god had to learn everything.

4. ALL POWERFUL

"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6

"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20

The LDS god attained his power.

5. OMNIPRESENT

"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1

"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24

The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.

6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION

"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24

"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6

"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6

The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.

7. NO OTHER GODS

"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11

"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8

"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9

"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8

The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.

For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:

Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“I am called Resty you refer to yourself even as AMPU these handles are not derogatory!”

I agree entirely with you on this Resty! I claim to be the first that referred to you as Resty - a term of endearment and friendship.

“BTW Onions are good for the heart therefore I would never refer to you as Onion!”

:-)

Call me anything. Just don’t call me late for dinner!

Your little perfect onion

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“All I’m asking you to do is just say that James was correct. “

James, of course, is correct. Your interpretation of what James said, is, of course, totally bogus.

[Jim Robinson]

And, by the way, I place my trust and allegiance in GOD, not some money grubbing church!! Any church!! God resides in the heart!!

But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him.

Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.

Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD.

[restornu]

And I believe those who accuse others of shooting in the foot are committing violence in their hearts!

***

That is silly...

No way around it carnal profane words are carnal profane words and come from a place where the almighty is not present!

[Godzilla]

I don’t know MHG, you and the bible have already made it very clear stourme’s assertions are out of wack. He’s not hitting too well, since he won’t admit to getting on the WRONG bandwagon regarding Romans 5:6-8, right AMPU.

Interesting, considering that lds inc. has invested billions in a mall in slc, while the poor and hungry in places like Haiti have only received pittance.

Consider also how the ‘restored’ apostles and prophet are treated in context with james 2:2* For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3* And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

Poor mormons like stourme - they are weighted down by their laws and ordinances in order to become ‘acceptable’. They further fail to recognize James 2:10* For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

So I guess if stourme wants to make feeding and clothing the poor a requirement for salvation, how many of the poor has he PERSONALLY fed and clothed? Has he personally fed and clothed enough to be righteous? If not, then he has failed to keep the whole law and is guilty of violating ALL of the law.

And James add more condemnation - for he commends the poor as being recipients of faith and the kingdom. Yet, how many of these poor actually get a temple recommend? And if were were to take the logic laid out here by stourme to its conclusion - why haven’t mormons renounced their wealth and become materially poor to be blessed with faith and to inherit the kingdom? The crickets are getting mighty loud.

By his own words in this thread, mormons like stourme are bound to perfectly keep all of the law - with the slightest failure resulting in having to start all over. They are not renouncing material wealth to become poor to inherit the kingdom. Nor are they love their neighbors as themselves - they keep them outside of their temples and deny them.

Yet in conclusion - James come out and emphasizes that we will be “judged by the law of liberty.” (Jas 2:12) and delivered from the curse of the law by the mercy of God. Thus as Paul states in Rom 5:6-8, Jesus saved us while we were yet ungodly.

mormons like stourme rather obfuscate than meet this head on.

[Jim Robinson]

Well, you preach it your way, I’ll preach it mine.

Just be thankful that we both agree that Romney is an unrepentant abortionist statist troll who should never be considered as a presidential contender!!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Just be thankful that we both agree that Romney is an unrepentant abortionist statist troll who should never be considered as a presidential contender!!”

Bears repeating over and over.

ampu

[Jim Robinson]

Now, I’m no biblical scholar but I believe the bible is rampant with carnal activity.

[Godzilla]

Onions - good source of fiber

Is that why you seem so cranky?

[restornu]

My parents felt jaded to about church in general too so they never went to church and I am proud to say they walk the walk the best they could striving to live the Ten Commandments.

Me I need all the help I can get...

[Godzilla]

James, of course, is correct. Your interpretation of what James said, is, of course, totally bogus.

In the same manner that his allegations regarding Rom 5:6-8 are totally bogus as well.

[metmom]

So, we have stopped donating money, and use this site primarily as a news source. Perhaps other's may chose to do the same.

Why would anyone donate money to a site that opts to attack their church? This has nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with stoking a precious few egos.

That's a pretty consistently active posting history for someone who claims to be using FR *primarily as a news source*.

How hypocritical.

You object it enough to withhold your support, and yet continue to FReepload and encourage others to do the same?

It reminds me of certain groups of immigrants who come to the US criticizing it the whole while.

If you don't like it here, leave already.

And that's just my own opinion. I do not say that as someone in authority to order you around (anticipating the usual *Who do you think you are telling me what to do?* reaction. Just a FReeper who has no use for hypocrites.

The preceding message is NOT Mormon bashing. Sorry to disappoint you.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“FReeploader that encourages others to do the same.”

Tell Hodar to pay his full tithe... or be considered unworthy or a FRemple Recommend.

[Stourme]

[MHGinTN]When will you read the posts I’ve already posted for you? The answer to your demand is there, if you but read the posts. ... Can you hear me now?

You posted pages and pages that did everything but answer the question. Your posts ducked, dodged, weaved, hid, misdirected, confused, created strawmen, tore down strawmen, and everything else but give a direct answer.

I'm not asking for you to be a Mormon. I'm not asking you to agree with Mormons. I'm not asking you to do anything that would give you Mormon cooties.

I'm asking you to agree with James of the New Testament.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

I just don't get your attitude. I honestly don't.

You yell Bible! Bible! Bible! Christian! Christian! Christian! But yet you refuse to acknowledge the simplest phrase in the Bible.

I'd have thought you'd be shouting this from the roof tops.
Well anyways... you can't get around it. The requirement is right there written for all to see.

I guarantee you one thing .. Jesus Christ will not forget it at the judgment. This is an eternal law.

Luke 6:46 - 47
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them,...

[MHGinTN]When will you read the posts I’ve already posted for you? The answer to your demand is there, if you but read the posts. ... Can you hear me now?

[Stourme]

[metmom] The preceding message is NOT Mormon bashing. Sorry to disappoint you.

How hypocritical.

You object it enough to withhold your support, and yet continue to FReepload and encourage others to do the same?

It reminds me of certain groups of immigrants who come to the US criticizing it the whole while.

LOOKS LIKE A JOB FOR!!!



FR is a free site. FR is kept interesting by lots of interaction of people with different opinions.
The more people feel welcome the more chance there is they will donate.
I would suggest not telling people to leave.

[metmom]

The words of Jesus Himself.

John 6: 28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Works will only result in condemnation. They can’t save you. If you sin only once, you are guilty of the whole Law. You can live a perfect live from now on and it’s not going to do any good because of that once.

THAT’S why works don’t save, because you have to keep the WHOLE Law. Only Jesus did that.

Galatians 2:20I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

[TurkeyLurkey]

>I agree, and i also was saying that before i started to church i was pretty good at doing what God wants us to do, as doing unto others as you would have them to do unto you.

But after i started to church, religion took over and i quit doing those things that i had been doing, i started thinking that i had no part with people that did not go to church.<

Well, it is real easy to get our focus on pleasing others instead of God, but truly, we’re the ones who choose to do it, no one makes us. Today our churches are full of unbelievers. The tares are even in the pulpit teaching false doctrine and blindly leading others. The only way to know the difference between the false and the true is to know the Word of God.

An old lady told me when I first became a Christian in 1979 that Christians had a relationship, not a religion. She was right, of course. I am thankful I was told that at the beginning of my Christian walk.

>Abraham was called a friend of God because he was counted righteous because he showed God his faith by his works, but even his works was not enough, he still had to follow Jesus into glory as the rest of Gods early men of God did.<

Abraham was justified, or counted righteous, or declared righeous, when he BELIEVED God’s promises in Genesis 15. [Genesis 15:6: “Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.”

James (2:23) is saying that in Genesis 22, when Abraham went to sacrifice Isaac, the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.

He was already justified by faith. But getting his son ready for the sacrifice as God told him SHOWED that his faith was real, not dead or worthless. In that regard, he was justified [SHOWN to be righteous] by works and not by faith alone. The whole point being that if a person says he has faith in God through Jesus Christ, he will have a righteous life (evidence of his faith) that proves his righteousness.

>Since every church has a different doctrine, every one can be wrong, but every one can not be right, so it has to be a personal faith in God and in his son.<

Yes, personal faith in God’s only provision for our salvation—the Lord Jesus Christ. And then we must grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, 2 Peter 3:18, by studying His Word.

I know it’s hard to find a church where Jesus Christ is the focus and God’s Word is believed as Truth without error. But there are still a few around. There’s no perfect church, right?! There are tares in every assembly I suspect. If I found myself in a church that didn’t adhere to the Bible, I’d start running!

>I have only come into contact with one church that i mostly agree with and they do not say they are the only true church and in fact they will tell you that you do not even have to go to church to be saved.<

Well, church attendance is certainly not a requirement for salvation, only one way is—grace through faith, as Ephesians 2:1-10 says. But believers are told not to forsake assembling together, so I would definitely make it a point to meet with other believers for Bible study, prayer, and worship if I couldn’t find a decent church.

>They do not collect Tithes and do not believe Christian churches have the commandment nor the authority to collect them.
Could tithes have something to do with other churches telling people they needed to come to church to be saved?
Just my idea and have a great day.<

Well, I wouldn’t doubt that it is the motive of some that saw that.

Yes, tithes were for Israel under the Law. The church, that is, the body of true believers, are to give generously, as 2 Corinthians 9 says.

Philippians 4:23 to you

[greyfoxx39]

FR is a free site.

Are you a FReeploader too? FR is accessible due to the good graces of Jim Robinson AND the freewill donations of thousands who DO NOT try to dictate what JR allows on his site.

FR is kept interesting by lots of interaction of people with different opinions. The more people feel welcome the more chance there is they will donate.

I would suggest not telling people to leave.

FR is a free site.

Hmmm....

[metmom]

Painting it as hyperbole is hyperbole in itself.

In case you can’t tell the difference between saying one thing and doing another, there are words for it.

And there’s another word for when someone makes a claim to be doing one thing and in reality does another.

How is telling someone to leave already if they object to it so much any worse than someone encouraging others not to donate until FR complies with what they want it to be?

Control issues much?

So, you chastise me for encouraging him to leave already cause he maybe could sometime in the future donate, but did you chastise him for encouraging others to not donate?

***scanning stourme’s posting history....***

Yeah, that’s what I thought.....

[Godzilla]

You yell Bible! Bible! Bible! Christian! Christian! Christian! But yet you refuse to acknowledge the simplest phrase in the Bible.

Instead of responding to Rom 5:6-8 you whined to the RM. Tells all that MHG is not the one who cannot refuse to acknowledge the simplest phrase in the Bible.