The never-ending chronicle of church-related crime

Bobo's World ^

[Jaded]

Is it a slow day or what?

[frogjerk]

Show me the voice recording or actual words written by Jesus himself where he says priest need to be celibate. It was a man man creation written by infallible men who have interpreted their own meaning of it through the centuries.

Show me the voice recording or actual written words by Jesus of anything.

Don't you understand the Creed you profess every Sunday and that you are agreeing to it with your "Amen"? Do you understand Sacred Tradition, Magisterial teaching and the Word of God and how they are related as a Catholic? Do you understand the "loosing and binding" charge of the Church?

You never answered my question. Is a pastor who has done great things spreading the word of God his whole life looked upon any less by God?? My friend always wanted to be a priest not a deacon but he fell in love with his HS sweetheart 30 years ago.

We are all judged by God so I cannot presume to say as you do. I do know what that He left the Church as a visible sign of his teaching authority.

Can we question the Church, absolutely? Should we question the teaching and discipline of the church thru ignorance? Absolutely not. That would be irresponsible.

Your friend would have to become a deacon first before a priest anyway. Why doesn't he serve in the capacity he can? Why is he insistent of him getting his way? How is this the Church's fault? Your friend chose his vocation 30 years ago. You wont answer my question, "why doesn't your friend become a permanent deacon so that he can serve the Church?" Sounds more like your friend wants to serve himself with that attitude.

My church is a "training" church. They bring in priest right out of the seminary for 6 month to a year and then they do onto a permanent position elsewhere. Yes, there are fine young priest and I am sure you are one of them. However, The last 3 out of 4 we have had we terrible.

As long as you limit available candidates you are going to get a lesser candidates as a whole.

Tell that to the Marines.

[Alex Murphy]

Is it a slow day or what?

It's not the day that's slow - the "article" herein is five years old!

[frogjerk]

I agree with you. There are a lot of great, celebate priests out there, but the celebacy rule certainly encourages sexual deviants who want to remain in the closet to apply. If you know you will never get married, and you become a priest, you have an excuse. Certainly doesn’t apply to all or even most priests, but I get what you are saying.

The celibacy rule does not encourage sexual deviants, improper discernment and lax seminaries do. To say that lack of sexual activity will cause men (or women) to homosexually prey on teens and children is an absurdity.

If that was the case then any man hitting a dry patch in his marriage should not be let into middle schools and elementary schools. It is a very asinine argument.

[hoyt-clagwell]

As long as you limit available candidates you are going to get a lesser candidates as a whole. Tell that to the Marines.

My church is praying for men to come to the priesthood each mass and there is a shortage.

The Marines are not praying for recruits nor is there a shortage.

There is no comparison between the two.

[frogjerk]

My church is praying for men to come to the priesthood each mass and there is a shortage.

Maybe your parish/diocese is too liberal. Dioceses/parishes that are more orthodox are experiencing an increase in the number of seminarians.

[MHGinTN]

Did you happen to notice the duplicity (as you put it, both sides of the mouth) in the post, citing a passage from the Book of Moses (LDS scripture) saying Jesus paid for original sin, yet the LDS teach that none are accountable for Adam's sin, as in inherited original sin? The meaning of Salvation is very different to the LDS.

Mormonism is not about truth, it is about deception, deceiving people to appear to be 'restored christianity', when the god and jesus of Momronism are very different from the Bible God and Jesus.

[Elsie]

You really have a LOOOoooong reach back in time; Restornu!

 

 

Thursday, June 22, 2000

 

The never-ending chronicle of church-related crime

[Campion]

The Catholic Church wanted unmarried men back in the early days becuse they came from the wealthy class i.e. literate and they wanted their money when they died. Simple as that. It was a money issue to the church from Day 1.

Horsefeathers. Tell it to Paul in 1 Corinthians chapter 7. And who were those "eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven" Jesus mentioned, anyway? Are you telling me that Jesus was only in it for the money?

[Elsie]

Reminder of what Jesus Said He who is without cast the first stone!

Oh shut up!

MORMONism has NO problem with the 'stones' that IT hurls!

Hell; it's in their SCRIPTURE!!!

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http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,

“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

 

[Elsie]

Fallen from grace, seduce, or a fraud to begin with!

Yup! In 2 outta 3 you've pegged MORMONism quite well!

[Elsie]

What a child of God is asked to do is.

What a child of MORONI is REQUIRed to do:

 

 

 

 

Temple Recommend Questions

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1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

       Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
       Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

[Elsie]

 

This tear down Christianity approach is restornu Momronism apologetics.

In order to create room for the heresies of Mormonism,

LDS apologists at FR have to try and bore holes in Christianity.

 

Surely NOT!

 

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Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.

They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

[Elsie]

Some times selective hit pieces are done to knoch another faith.

Have you EVER found out what JS claimed was UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANism?

[Elsie]

Some times selective hit pieces are done to knoch another faith.

Uh...

You said this out loud...

[Elsie]

Wow!

That's an AWFUL lot of BIBLE verses to read; when you have NO clue as to whether they were TRANSLATED correctly or not!

Has HEADQUARTERS given you an updated list this year?

--MormoDude(I misplaced MY list...)

[Elsie]

 

Did you read post #2 or did you not care when you posted your first reply!

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Polygamy: How it all got Started

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Joe: Hey Emma!   Guess what!?

 

Emma: You KNOW I hate these guessing games! What is it, Dear?

 

Joe: I heard a voice, probably the Lord, tell me I must take other wives.

 

Emma: WHAT!?   You ding bat!  Don't you KNOW what our precious BOOK says?   After all; YOU are the one that translated it!

 

Joe: Books; schmooks.   All I know is I've been COMMANDED to take other wives and you are to OBEY ME!!!

 

 

Emma:      "Though shalt NOT commit ADULTERY!!!"

 

 

Joe: Silly Woman!  You KNOW better than to take things out of CONTEXT!!!

 

 

 

 

 

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...and the rest is HISTORY...

 

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THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 2

 

  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

 

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Or even HERE:

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 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

 

 

1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

 

 

 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

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Emma: That's IT!   I'm LEAVING your sorry *!!!

 

Joe:  DARN you Emma; you were TOLD to accept this!!   Wait!!!   I hear a voice again!!!

 

 

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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 132

 

  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 

 

  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to ^aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, ^areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been ^afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and ^acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be ^bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ^ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of ^beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid ^aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to ^brejoice.

Did you read post #2 or did you not care when you posted your first reply!

[MHGinTN]

“We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.” And how does that square with the citing of the book of Moses given earlier? ... Mormonism isn’t about truth. It is all about deceiving. The most successful deceptions have a look of fact while promoting insidious lies.

[Elsie]

 

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"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

 

 

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

 - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

 - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

 

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They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

 Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

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Dear Reader: what does it sound like to YOU?