Posted on 12/15/2010 5:09:09 PM PST by RnMomof7
In the sermon descriptively entitled, “That Hearing and Keeping the Word of God Renders a Person More Blessed Than Any Other Privilege That Ever God Bestowed on Any of the Children of Men,” Jonathan Edwards writes: The hearing and keeping the word of God brings the happiness of a spiritual union and communion with God. ‘Tis a greater blessedness to have spiritual communion with God and to have a saving intercourse with him by the instances of his Spirit and by the exercise of true devotion than it is to converse with God externally, to see the visible representation and manifestations of his presence and glory, and to hear his voice with the bodily ears as Moses did. For in this spiritual intercourse the soul is nigh unto and hath more a particular portion than in any external intercourse. ‘Tis more blessed to be spiritually related to Jesus Christ—to be his disciples, his brethren and the members—than to stand in the nearest temporal relation, than to be his brother or his mother. Come, Thou Long Expected Jesus, ed. Nancy Guthrie, 57.
Maybe some Catholic -- even an ordained cleric -- told you that, but that's not "the church" speaking. The church has officially indulgenced Bible reading (that is, private Bible reading by individual lay Catholics), and she wouldn't do that unless she thought it was a Good Thing [tm].
Now if, by "we could not understand it" you mean you were told that you can't just go inventing and embracing willy-nilly ideas you think come from the Scriptures, like "the Ark is a type of Christ" or "Mary is a sinner, spiritually inferior to me" or "the Gospels were written for Jews, they don't apply to us in the Church Age," I would say that's right.
By the way, I'm a cradle Catholic, though I attend a parish with a lot of converts. (I'm in a choir there where almost everyone is a convert from either the Church of Christ or the Church of the Nazarene. They tell a lot of inside jokes that I don't get. :-( )
And right there, he’s preaching to the choir.
The local parishes need to got out and get the message out.
What is a "dead person living in heaven"? Are they dead or not?
RnMomof7: The ark is a type of CHRIST
Metmom (reply to a different post of Rn’s): Doesn’t that make us all arks of the covenant?
Cronos: Take those two statements — now either you, M, disagree with R’s first statement or if you agree, then, your logic states that “us all” are types of Christ. Is that your logic, M?
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See what quote mining will get you?
The worst pauper living in filth is more blessed than any who have died and are in the most exhaulted fields of Elysium.
I’m talking about real life, worked with, lived with, and grew up with Catholics, as I DID state. Especially note the use *knew* that being the past tense of *to know* .
You can still get rid of the occasional bible salesman by stating that you are Catholic, and of course don’t read the Bible.
Read the first part of the verse.
The doctrines of men and not God
Hardly.
The angel saluted Mary by calling her kecharitomene, which Jerome quite accurately translated as gratia plena, "full of grace". (kecharitomene is the perfect passive participle of charitoo, "to grace".)Kecharitomene means "already completely graced as an accomplished fact".
What kind of sinner is "full of grace"?
Moreover, Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law perfectly. But at the same time, He alone among all men actually created his own mother. How can creating someone in sin be honoring them? Doesn't sin dishonor everything it touches?
You really can't have a sinful Mary and a divine Jesus and a Jesus who kept the Law of Moses perfectly. Pick any two.
The schema of the Dogmatic Constitution on the Principal Mysteries of the Faith, drafted for the First Vatican Council (1869-1870), includes the unique mediation of Jesus Christ as one of these principal mysteries: "Truly, therefore, Christ Jesus is mediator between God and man, one man dying for all; he made satisfaction to the divine justice for us, and he erased the handwriting that was against us. Despoiling principalities and powers, he brought us from our longstanding slavery into the freedom of sons."These quotations from official Catholic documents give unambiguous proof that the Church believes Jesus Christ and no other is the one mediator between sinful humanity and the righteous God
The fifth session of the Council of Trent (1546) laid out the belief in Jesus the one true mediator as the norm of Catholic faith: "[Original sin cannot be] taken away through the powers of human nature or through a remedy other than the merit of the one mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, who reconciled us to God in his blood, having become our justice, and sanctification, and redemption."Can you please cite any official dogma that cites otherwise?
*sigh*, yes some of my closest friends and co-workers were Catholic, very dedicated practicing Catholics.
I have neighbors here where I live who are the same, as I see them going to church in the morning as often as they can.
The Catholics I worked with went to many different parishes as they lived in a wide geographic area.
I have relatives who were priests and a nun and one relative in law who was a nun.
My experience is not limited and other former Catholics on this thread state the same experiences.
Not for the area I grew up in.
Official dogma means little when it conflicts with other official dogmas and practices. It is merely hypocrisy. Prayers TO the dead are an appeal to an alternative mediator and infusing them with divine attributes. Despite the sophistry which attempts argue otherwise it is idolatry and idolatry is not consistent with recognizing Christ on the exclusive mediator.
John 20:24-29 24 Now Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord." But he said to them, "Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe."1. This is about +Thomas, Apostle of India, not about Mary
26Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you." 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe." 28Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" 29Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
As if the Holy of Holies would allow himself to be borne of a sinner.
OK, so we remove "For all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23) because we now have an exception - and an exception based not on fact, but on wishful speculation.
Look how the ark of the covenant was treated. It was very well respected.
Yes, we see how it was dragged out into a field of battle, thinking that the Ark had magical properties in and of itself, then being captured and treated like an object of worship by the Philistines. Because we all know that God really detests worship of Him and prefers that we cast our affections on things of wood and metal.
I know that non-Covenantialists can't understand the prophetic languages and types concerning the temple, yet let me ask you this since you have tried to associate the two: Regarding Solomon's Temple, where the Ark and the Shekinah Glory resided for a time, was that Temple and that innermost room built by sinners or did angels descend from heaven and build it?
Now revisit your argument and explain how sinners and reprobates can build a Temple for God's Glory (which is arguably the most important thing of all) yet Mary had to be sinless. For extra credit, how could Mary be sinless, born of the seed of fallen man and a soiled womb, but the Creator couldn't, and how this doesn't evolve into a impossible regression that ends with a fallen Adam & Eve.
Mary is the living ark who bore the God-Man. She deserves respect
Then we should also worship Mary's parents since Mary would not have been around if not for her parents, and her grandparents, branching the tree wider and wider through the prostitute Rahab who must also be respected. Arguably, if not for Adam & Eve there would not be a Mary, so we should also pray to them (even if they are burning in Hell).
Has the word "respected" now been redefined into "worship"?
Sorry.
Since Christ is living in me now, how does that make me any different than Mary who merely had Christ living in her in a body for only a few months.
Without much effort, I could make that an argument for a sinless Mary, though probably not in the way that Catholics would like to see it. Consider this: Since the regenerate take on the Righteousness of Christ and his sinlessness, He can then dwell within us.
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